Whitlock Cobra 5R Jammed

[Loopy]

Just writing to see if I could get some recommendations on what to do. Based out of the US, the 30 year old Whitlock Cobra 5R pedestal on our sailboat has jammed. I began to disassemble it to see if I could find the problem.

So far I've managed to remove the wheel, brake assembly, pinion, and top plate. The rack is jammed, and I can't seem to remove the stacker pins and disassemble any further from the top. At any rate the output arm on the bottom appears to be long enough that the entire assembly cannot be pulled out from the top anyway.

Any recommendations? I'm thinking that water intrusion has resulted in something rusting.

At 30 years old with Whitlock out of business is it worth trying to refurbish this?

If I was to look for a replacement, which Lewmar product would be the easiest replacement?

 

[Thistle]

Silly question: are you sure the problem is in the pedestal? Could something have moved and be fouling the linkage between the bottom of the pedestal and the rudder post? Or could something be fouling the rudder? If you undo the linkage at the bottom of the pedestal, can you turn the wheel?

 

[sailorbenji]

Just writing to see if I could get some recommendations on what to do. Based out of the US, the 30 year old Whitlock Cobra 5R pedestal on our sailboat has jammed. I began to disassemble it to see if I could find the problem.

So far I've managed to remove the wheel, brake assembly, pinion, and top plate. The rack is jammed, and I can't seem to remove the stacker pins and disassemble any further from the top. At any rate the output arm on the bottom appears to be long enough that the entire assembly cannot be pulled out from the top anyway.

Any recommendations? I'm thinking that water intrusion has resulted in something rusting.

At 30 years old with Whitlock out of business is it worth trying to refurbish this?

If I was to look for a replacement, which Lewmar product would be the easiest replacement?

It would be highly unusual for the pedestal itself to jam...have you disconnected the draglink that connects the lever at the bottom of the pedestal to the tiller lever on your rudder stock?

This will at least confirm if the jam is in the pedestal, or the rudder shaft itself.

 

[Loopy]

I haven't disconnected that, but I will do so and check. I had a diver dive on the rudder to take a look and he did not notice anything out of the ordinary below the water line.

A visual inspection of the output arm/drag link/rudder post inside the boat doesn't show anything fouling it.

 

[Quandary]

About 15 years ago when I sailed a Sigma 38 there was an exploded diagram of their Whitlock Cobra column on their owners club website, might still be there?
A thread here about 7 years ago recommended googling 'Lewmar whitlock cobra steering' for information.

 

[xyachtdave]

Cliff from Whitlock Steering Services is your man if it need a refurb.

Home - Whitlock Steering

Not great on comms, hassle him a bit on the mobile number, very busy I guess but excellent work

 

[sailorbenji]

I haven't disconnected that, but I will do so and check. I had a diver dive on the rudder to take a look and he did not notice anything out of the ordinary below the water line.

A visual inspection of the output arm/drag link/rudder post inside the boat doesn't show anything fouling it.

I think it's worthwhile, otherwise you could be concentrating on the wrong thing. Diver would only see something major blocking the rudder, it could also easily be something inside the boat, blocking the output lever, or the tiller lever....or swollen rudder bearings maybe? I've seen those jam rudders solid before.

 

[Loopy]

Indeed I was concentrating on the wrong thing. After I disconnected the draglink, the innards of the pedestal rotate from stop to stop if I turn the output arm, and the rudder still has minimal port/starbord travel using the emergency tiller.

Well, that helps somewhat; I can regrease and reassemble the pedestal, it was time for it to be serviced anyway I suppose. Maybe have a new top plate milled and epoxy the holes in the pedestal.

But the bigger issue now is, can this rudder issue be solved with the boat in the water, or does it have to be hauled and the rudder dropped? If so, it will have to be towed to the nearest travel lift which (unfortunately) is almost 100km from here.

 

[Tranona]

Depends on what has caused it to jam. If it is seized bearings, which is the most likely then really no option but to lift and drop rudder. However you don't say what boat it is or how the rudder and skeg (if any) are constructed so difficult to comment on what else might be jamming it.

 

[Loopy]

Depends on what has caused it to jam. If it is seized bearings, which is the most likely then really no option but to lift and drop rudder. However you don't say what boat it is or how the rudder and skeg (if any) are constructed so difficult to comment on what else might be jamming it.

The boat is an Etap 38i, spade rudder.

 

[coopec]

Maybe a bent rudder stock?

 

[Loopy]

Anything is possible I suppose, but the boat hasn't hit anything or grounded during the time I have owned it.

 

[Eeyore]

Not familiar with the Cobra set up, but I had problems with my Mamba system a year back. Made some notes if they are of any help, see Whitlock Mamba (yachtrhumbdo.co.uk)

 

[Loopy]

So the saga of the steering continues. I've made contact with one diver who thinks he can effect a repair by placing an inflatable float under the stern in front of the rudder and drop the rudder in the water. I've made contact with a towing company for what increasingly looks to be a 100km tow to a yard that can lift and fix whatever the issue is if that doesn't work.

Meanwhile, I'm putting the steering pedestal back together and have decided to replace what bearings I can easily access. The housing of the wheel brake came off the pedestal in one piece with the pinion in it. Any recommendations on how to disassemble this further? I've tried a rubber mallet on the narrow end of the pinion, and tried to use a screwdriver to pull the rubber seal ring off without success.

I'm a bit paranoid working with this as spares aren't the easiest to get and might not be available.

 

[pvb]

Meanwhile, I'm putting the steering pedestal back together and have decided to replace what bearings I can easily access. The housing of the wheel brake came off the pedestal in one piece with the pinion in it. Any recommendations on how to disassemble this further? I've tried a rubber mallet on the narrow end of the pinion, and tried to use a screwdriver to pull the rubber seal ring off without success.

There is a bearing inside it, but I don't know how you'd get at it. Does this diagram help at all?

 

[Martin_J]

So the saga of the steering continues. I've made contact with one diver who thinks he can effect a repair by placing an inflatable float under the stern in front of the rudder and drop the rudder in the water. I've made contact with a towing company for what increasingly looks to be a 100km tow to a yard that can lift and fix whatever the issue is if that doesn't work.

Meanwhile, I'm putting the steering pedestal back together and have decided to replace what bearings I can easily access. The housing of the wheel brake came off the pedestal in one piece with the pinion in it. Any recommendations on how to disassemble this further? I've tried a rubber mallet on the narrow end of the pinion, and tried to use a screwdriver to pull the rubber seal ring off without success.

I'm a bit paranoid working with this as spares aren't the easiest to get and might not be available.

Rubber seal off first then there is a circlip underneath.

 

[Martin_J]

I've a video of taking it to pieces somewhere, but for now...

 

[Martin_J]

Hold on.. I'm in the middle of other tasks.. Maybe the circlip doesn't hold the insides in place. The video I made is actually of it going back together...

Assembling Whitlock Cobra wheel bearing.

I did find another image... looks like maybe the bearings stick into place...

 

[pvb]

Unless there's obvious wear in the bearings, I might be tempted to leave it alone!

 

[Loopy]

Any advice on how to get the rubber seal out without damaging it?

I suspect that the bearings aren't in great condition when I turn the pinion by hand.