Whilst walking in the marina I saw these 2 horrors

[Chiara’s slave]

It's possible for a well intentioned helper to make even the most experienced skipper look like an idiot.

Tell me about it. We came onto the outside of a raft at a club rally, the next door skipper insisted on taking our bow line, in spite of Mrs C being poised to step across, and us ferrygliding gently closer. I couldn’t see, but obviously trust OH 1000%, hadnt realised she’d been mugged of the mooring line. I cut the power, stepped across with the stern line. The git on the bow just let the line run, we drifted back, and as I’d promptly made off the stern, the bow swung out. I looked fwd, and at that moment the stern line took off his ensign staff at the root. OH jumped, grabbed the line, made it off and swigged it in. Situation recovered. I bought him a new staff, even though his was totally rotten, could dig wood out with a finger nail.

 

[gaylord694]

I'd find the collection of 'wet string' that most owners tie up their beloved boat far more interesting. There being a prize for the number of Xs in an OXO on the cleat and a booby prize for locking turns. Extra booby prize for locking turns done the wrong way.

What's problem with locking turns

 

[Chiara’s slave]

What's problem with locking turns

Someone up there suggested it might be a hangover from natural fibre mooring lines. They could shrink on the cleat, and become impossible to undo without a knife. Whilst often there’s no need to do it, there’s no reason I can think of why they’re so terrible. Sailing being often hidebound by tradition, there are a number of areas where the ‘right’ way to do something has been superseded by technology. Anchors, paper charts, roller furling, sail materials have all come in for such debate.

 

[johnalison]

You may disapprove if you like, but our bow and stern lines have almost always been looped round the shore cleat and made fast back on board, meaning that they can be released from on board when leaving, while the springs have been attached with loops, as described. In cases where some elasticity is needed, I will generally slacken the bow or stern line and add another line with a rubber snubber.

 

[GEM43]

You may disapprove if you like, but our bow and stern lines have almost always been looped round the shore cleat and made fast back on board, meaning that they can be released from on board when leaving, while the springs have been attached with loops, as described. In cases where some elasticity is needed, I will generally slacken the bow or stern line and add another line with a rubber snubber.

I’ve not practiced a loop around the cleat horns as I’ve always thought it would be too easy for a ne’er do well to lift the loop off the cleat. Hence I bowline through the cleat, occasionally with a turn in the bowline loop if chafe might be an issue.

 

[johnalison]

I’ve not practiced a loop around the cleat horns as I’ve always thought it would be too easy for a ne’er do well to lift the loop off the cleat. Hence I bowline through the cleat, occasionally with a turn in the bowline loop if chafe might be an issue.

If necessary, my loop can be taken through the cleat and looped over the top. I have never actually heard of a line being removed maliciously, but generally taken extra precaution if there is a scend.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We don't do that on our home mooring, but usually do in visitor spaces. That’s where you might be asked to move without faffing around. Our home mooring is never used as a guest mooring by the harbour, we can store our excess lines on the cleats if we want to.

 

[Tamar]

In the early 80's I was 16 / 17, and my first bike was a BSA C15, that I built from two tea chests of BSA C15 bits, in my Mum and Dad's garden shed. I wrecked loads of bits but learned a lot, all my own effort. The bike failed its first MOT because I fitted long bolts on the back mudguard which could have fouled the rear tyre when the suspension was compressed. I sorted that out by reversing the nuts and bolts, and MOT issued. Later, a neighbour criticised my efforts because the bolts were upside down. I think my Mum told the neighbour to take a hike. It stuck with me and since then I have always held opinions of criticisers, especially those who insist on a proper way of doing something. I keep my opinion to myself, mostly, because a lot of criticisers are well meaning at the end of the day, some just like to act superior.

In the 70s I bought a honda CB72, riding it home i slowed down after turning into my road and promptly went over the handlebars right Infront of a bus stop full of people. Not wanting to look silly I got back on and rode off only for it to happen again almost straight away. Severely bruised and feeling extremely foolish I sat on the kerb and noticed the front number plate was held on with long bolts and the front mudguard was loose causing the bolts to dig into the front tyre. Glad it didn't happen when I was seeing how fast I could go on the bypass.

 

[GEM43]

If necessary, my loop can be taken through the cleat and looped over the top. I have never actually heard of a line being removed maliciously, but generally taken extra precaution if there is a scend.

Yes, your experience of malicious intent is mine too, but I read of such problems on the canals which perhaps infects my saltwater sailing thinking.

 

[Mark-1]

If necessary, my loop can be taken through the cleat and looped over the top. I have never actually heard of a line being removed maliciously, but generally taken extra precaution if there is a scend.

I don't think it would require the slightest malace.

I didn't know the current "canonical" OXO and had to Google it. In both of the two vids I watched the loop was already coming off just with the natural spring of the line 1 second after it was tied.

...and that's before passers by have accidently kicked it, bashed it with trolleys, dogs investigated it.

It's just doesn't work and I don't recall ever seeing a boat tied up that way, I'm pretty sure I'd notice.

If malace was an issue just get a toddler to tie it. I gaurentee a yob would get bored after half an hour trying to get it off the cleat and move on.

 

[Dockhead]

It is a cover as already said above, just to hide the sealant around the chainplates where they pass through the deck, no structural use whatsoever. My Moody has them on all shrouds/chainplates.

Of course. How could anyone think those little screws could play any structural role in keeping the rig up?

 

[johnalison]

I don't think it would require the slightest malace.

I didn't know the current "canonical" OXO and had to Google it. In both of the two vids I watched the loop was already coming off just with the natural spring of the line 1 second after it was tied. There is no way the remaining single X would survive a month unattended which is not an unusual occurance for weekend sailors.

...and that's before passers by have accidently kicked it, bashed it with trolleys, dogs investigated it.

It's just doesn't work and I don't recall ever seeing a boat tied up that way, I'm pretty sure I'd notice.

If malace was an issue just get a toddler to tie it. I gaurentee a yob would get bored after half an hour trying to get it off the cleat and move on.

I imagine that most of us were talking about temporary berths in this context. Of course, I would never leave just a loop for any extended time but if forced to I would cow-hitch it to the cleat. My home berth has my own shore-lines which I finish off with three locking turns aboard, mainly to tidy away the surplus, while the shore end just has steel loops with which to entertain visitors while they try to work out what the hell to do with them.

 

[Dockhead]

You may disapprove if you like, but our bow and stern lines have almost always been looped round the shore cleat and made fast back on board, meaning that they can be released from on board when leaving, while the springs have been attached with loops, as described. In cases where some elasticity is needed, I will generally slacken the bow or stern line and add another line with a rubber snubber.

Our practice exactly, including even the rubber snubber.

 

[Mark-1]

I imagine that most of us were talking about temporary berths in this context. Of course, I would never leave just a loop for any extended time but if forced to I would cow-hitch it to the cleat. My home berth has my own shore-lines which I finish off with three locking turns aboard, mainly to tidy away the surplus, while the shore end just has steel loops with which to entertain visitors while they try to work out what the hell to do with them.

I got a bit carried away with the month and I'll edit my post accordingly, but either way, we're in agreement, doing the best thing for the situation is the right thing to do.

As an aside, steel loops aren't that rare, I'd imagine most people see them from time to time. I saw a lot as a lad and one of our favorite destinations have them. Not sure it's that difficult a puzzle. Double back, chain knot, bow line or whatever the tie-ers favorite hitch is. There must be dozens of other options.

 

[johnalison]

I got a bit carried away with the month and I'll edit my post accordingly, but either way, we're in agreement, doing the best thing for the situation is the right thing to do.

As an aside, steel loops aren't that rare, I'd imagine most people see them from time to time. I saw a lot as a lad and one of our favorite destinations have them. Not sure it's that difficult a puzzle. Double back, chain knot, bow line or whatever the tie-ers favorite hitch is. There must be dozens of other options.

It’s not the end product that is the problem so much as the process involved. I have spent many happy times watching people arrive and try to berth without making a complete mess of it. This makes a pleasing compensation for the mess we ourselves have made in trying to cope with certain foreign yacht harbours, where at least there are no witnesses who could testify against us.

 

[Stemar]

It’s not the end product that is the problem so much as the process involved. I have spent many happy times watching people arrive and try to berth without making a complete mess of it. This makes a pleasing compensation for the mess we ourselves have made in trying to cope with certain foreign yacht harbours, where at least there are no witnesses who could testify against us.

Much schadenfreude can be had when someone tries to hold the boat, rather than getting a turn around the cleat PDW. The stereotype would be the long-suffering wife doing this after the Sole Master Aboard After God has messed up and is shouting at her to save the situation

My pet hate is the substitution of a ring rather than a proper cleat, on the pontoon, making a quick turn to hold the boat impossible when things are going pear-shaped. Do Titchmarsh and Cherbourg still have these abominations?

 

[johnalison]

Much schadenfreude can be had when someone tries to hold the boat, rather than getting a turn around the cleat PDW. The stereotype would be the long-suffering wife doing this after the Sole Master Aboard After God has messed up and is shouting at her to save the situation

My pet hate is the substitution of a ring rather than a proper cleat, on the pontoon, making a quick turn to hold the boat impossible when things are going pear-shaped. Do Titchmarsh and Cherbourg still have these abominations?

I think Cherbourg has normal cleats but it is many years since I was there. Titchmarsh proudly displays its loops, which are of course ideal for us residents. The commonly found cleat with its hole is clearly the most flexible system but the mere presence of a cleat doesn’t guarantee satisfaction. Skinny little ones that will only take one boat can be a nuisance, as can the tatty wooden ones at Heiligenhafen which trap the line and make removal of the loop hard, not to mention berths with no clear pints of attachment where improvisation is the order of the day.

 

[Boathook]

Much schadenfreude can be had when someone tries to hold the boat, rather than getting a turn around the cleat PDW. The stereotype would be the long-suffering wife doing this after the Sole Master Aboard After God has messed up and is shouting at her to save the situation

My pet hate is the substitution of a ring rather than a proper cleat, on the pontoon, making a quick turn to hold the boat impossible when things are going pear-shaped. Do Titchmarsh and Cherbourg still have these abominations?

I don't remember them in Cherbourg last year.

 

[vyv_cox]

My pet hate is the substitution of a ring rather than a proper cleat, on the pontoon, making a quick turn to hold the boat impossible when things are going pear-shaped. Do Titchmarsh and Cherbourg still have these abominations?

Don't do the Canal du Midi then! Something like 170 locks, every one different so far as bollards, cleats etc are concerned but about half with rings. Quite a challenge for the shore party (Jill)

 

[rotrax]

I don't remember them in Cherbourg last year.

The end on the short fingers have loops. There are cleats on the fingers and on the main floating pontoon.