Which trailer sailer!

[erbster]

I live in the midlands and did not want to carve a groove in the motorway to the same piece of water, so looked for a trailer sailer when looking for something for myself and family (kids age 11 and 7). I looked at a variety of boats and bought a cape cutter 19. 12 months later, very happy with choice. In fact off to launch for a weekend from chi tomorrow. Planning 2 weeks aboard next month on Fal.

Takes me less than 2 hours to rig and launch. Sails really well in a range of wind conditions due to flexible sail plan. However, it is cosy below (though sleeps the 4 of us well enough). Pics on my blog.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Pics on my blog.

A good blog. Snap shackles have a habit of coming undone when not expected, so having one as part of the forestay is a risk.

 

[Lakesailor]

The Anderson had a strong pedigree

The Anderson 22 was designed around 1973 by Oliver Lee of Burnham. He had already made a name for himself with great success in the fiercely competitive world of model yacht racing in the 'Marblehead' class

 

[Seajet]

The Anderson had a strong pedigree

You could have included the rest of my quote, mentioning Oliver Lee designing the early Hunters such as Squib, 19 / Europa, 490 & 709, the best sailors' boats they ever made...

 

[erbster]

Snap shackles have a habit of coming undone when not expected, so having one as part of the forestay is a risk.

Has this happened to you?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

You could have included the rest of my quote, mentioning Oliver Lee designing the early Hunters such as Squib, 19 / Europa, 490 & 709, the best sailors' boats they ever made...

I used to sail a 709. Like all the boats Lee designed, it was a competent boat by a competent designer. It was fine, but it wasn't the best boat ever made at its size. None of the boats he designed was. The Sonata that followed was, and remains, the outstanding boat of its size and time. The build figures and the continuing following years after production ended show that.

Cue 101 reasons why your precious A22 is better than the Sonata...

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Has this happened to you?

Yes. My main halyard mysteriously came detached. Fortunately it was when 2 reefs were in and so wasn't at the top of the mast so could be retrieved using the headsail halyard to haul someone up. The most notorious case was the wrestler who was being lowered into the ring supported by a snap shackle which came undone letting him fall. He died from his injuries.

 

[JimC]

the Sonata that followed was, and remains, the outstanding boat of its size and time. The build figures and the continuing following years after production ended show that.

Personally I'm a cruising yachtsman of the most stodgy and uncompetitive type but there's something about watching a packed fleet of Sonatas flitting round the cans on Windermere or elsewhere that lifts my heart. That boat looks so right.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Personally I'm a cruising yachtsman of the most stodgy and uncompetitive type but there's something about watching a packed fleet of Sonatas flitting round the cans on Windermere or elsewhere that lifts my heart. That boat looks so right.

My father had a Duette (Sonata with twin keels) which I sailed on sometimes. It is a cracking boat for its size, but they are hard to find, and not cheap when they come up either because they are so sought after. It fits into the 'can be trailed' category rather than a boat that you would want to trail and launch every time you go sailing.

It's a pity that small boat production doesn't seem to make economic sense for the builders now, because I expect there would be plenty of buyers for the likes of Sonatas and Duettes if the price was reasonable. Maybe if the Chinese get into boat manufacture like they seem to have everything else then these sorts of boats will reappear.

 

[prv]

The most notorious case was the wrestler who was being lowered into the ring supported by a snap shackle which came undone letting him fall.

That surprises me. Not that I would ever suspend myself from a snap-shackle (I'd avoid a normal shackle for that matter, and always tie into the halyard directly), but I find it hard to see how it would spontaneously undo under a steady load. Halyards I can understand more easily, as a flogging sail might shake it undone somehow.

Pete

 

[AngusMcDoon]

That surprises me. Not that I would ever suspend myself from a snap-shackle (I'd avoid a normal shackle for that matter, and always tie into the halyard directly), but I find it hard to see how it would spontaneously undo under a steady load. Halyards I can understand more easily, as a flogging sail might shake it undone somehow.

It is possible for them to look closed, but the pin only slightly in its hole by the edge of the rounded end. The only clue that it is not properly closed is the other end of the pin sticking out further than usual.

http://www.robbrobb.com/NewsPressDetail.aspx?Id=69

 

[Seajet]

Well I've heard the acting phrase ' prat fall ', now there's the proof.

The failings of snap shackles were clearly demonstrated on TV after the 1979 Fastnet disaster, it was shown how a standard snap shackle can be turned to undo itself quite easily.

This led to Gibb double action hooks for lifelines, only a fool or someone without any knowledge on the subject ( I'd suggest that was his problem, no point sueing everyone else ) would use old style single action snap shackles for such a task.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Well I've heard the acting phrase ' prat fall ', now there's the proof.

The failings of snap shackles were clearly demonstrated on TV after the 1979 Fastnet disaster, it was shown how a standard snap shackle can be turned to undo itself quite easily.

This led to Gibb double action hooks for lifelines, only a fool or someone without any knowledge on the subject ( I'd suggest that was his problem, no point sueing everyone else ) would use old style single action snap shackles for such a task.

You're confusing carabiners (crabs) with snap shackles.

 

[prv]

The failings of snap shackles were clearly demonstrated on TV after the 1979 Fastnet disaster, it was shown how a standard snap shackle can be turned to undo itself quite easily.

I think you're talking about carbine hooks:

Which used to be used on lifelines and, as you say, can unhook themselves if clipped into a fixed padeye.

This is a snap-shackle:

As it happens, the dangling wrestler would probably have been safer on a carbine hook (though it still wouldn't really be appropriate for the task). They're difficult to unclip under load (you can open the jaw, but the other fitting is still held on the hook) whereas snap shackles are designed precisely for undoing under load, for example blowing a spinnaker tack.

Pete

 

[prv]

It is possible for them to look closed, but the pin only slightly in its hole by the edge of the rounded end. The only clue that it is not properly closed is the other end of the pin sticking out further than usual.

Ah yes, I've known them do that often enough. I use one for a buckle on the rope belt that holds my knife and spike, and I habitually press the pin end when I put it on, to make sure it's properly closed.

You'd think someone would be very careful to check that if they were about to be suspended from the thing, but I guess wrestlers are unlikely to be familiar with rigging fittings.

Pete

 

[Twister_Ken]

You'd think someone would be very careful to check that if they were about to be suspended from the thing, but I guess wrestlers are unlikely to be familiar with rigging fittings.

Pete

Also not hard to imagine the opening ring or pull getting caught or snagged and pulled open if the guy was spinning, waving to the crowd, generally mucking about.

That sort of thing is what a screw gate crab is for, although climbers might well have invented better alternatives by now.

 

[[3889]]

This kind of stuff must be terribly off-putting to someone who comes new to the forum just wanting to "Share practical, hands-on information" and maybe hoping to learn something useful.

+1

 

[TSB240]

I am looking for a lifting keel yacht which is to be kept on an East Coast mud/ drying mooring and used with children (10 & 13) on board. Budget wise £10 to £14K. I have looked at the Beneteau First 211 which is nice but sits high on the trailer and needs deep water to launch. The Jeanneau Sun 2000 appears to sit a great deal lower on the trailer but lacks a weighted keel, have also read comments on lack of stability and not so good on a drying mooring. Does any one have experience of the Jeanneau or can make other comments on suitable craft. I had looked around for a Dehler but appear to be rather rare! Comments and advice appreciated.

Dear forgotten Op (Springers are completely bonkers !)

This is a list of trailable yachts within your price range and most have been mentioned in this thread..

It has a comparison of PY and theoretical displacement boat speed.
Boat Py Displacement Speed
Parker 275 1000 6.63
Trapper 240 1004 5.89
Hunter Delta 1009 6.03
Hunter F1 1016 6.03
Kelt 850 1025 6.67
Evolution 25 1030 6.33
Sun 2500 1038 6.30
First 210 1060 5.95
Sonata 1060 6.17
Sunfast 20 1065 5.83
Parker 21 1069 5.80
First 21.7 1074 5.95
First 24 1078 6.07
Sun 2000 1078 6.04
Legend 23.5 1090 6.20
Red Fox 1100 5.99
Swift 1112 5.41
Jaguar 23 1130 5.99
ETap 21 1130 5.99
Anderson 22 1132 5.88
Evolution 23 1138 5.69
Anderson 26 1140 6.50
Memory 19 1140 5.40
Seal 22 1215 5.90
Hunter Liberty 1250 5.84

PY is a very simplistic guide to relative performance and sailability. It is a little self generating in that racing sailors will tend towards a more performance orientated craft so extending the py gap.
In any case a typical maximum 6 hour coastal hop the fastest in the list will only be there an hour or so before the slowest.Cruising is not necessarily about how fast you get there after all.

Newer modern designs with wider beams and modern lightweight construction techniques promote early downwind surfing which is sometimes considered "not proper" for cruising sailors and might not suit the op....
Personally I find the off wind speed and control of a wide beamed hull to be both exhilarating and usefull for fast passage making when coastal cruising.

A quick inspection of the list supports my earlier assertion that most modern and race orientated designs are generally faster than most 70s design relics.......

Some final advice to the OP

We have enjoyed using an outboard driven trailable yacht for some time. An outboard in a well is noisy and also you need to consider very carefully how you are going to stow sufficient and very volatile fuel for longer trips. If this is important to you should seek out one with a lightweight IB diesel engine.(they are rare like the A26 which had one)

I hope the above information is useful for practical and comparison purposes and helps the thread get back on subject...............

 

[Seajet]

You're confusing carabiners (crabs) with snap shackles.

No, you are apparently confusing carabiner / snap shackles with piston hanks !

The latter rely on a tiny bronze / whatever / pin in shear load and I'd rather not say dangle out of an aeroplane relying on them

As mentioned the Gibb double action safety harness hook was invented for a reason, after the 1979 Fastnet.

 

[Seajet]

Well congatulations to all, this must be a Top Ten thread drift;

We've managed to get from lift keelers to failed acrobats !