Which small cruiser?

[pkb]

I'm in the market for advice.

We're looking to buy a small motor boat - something around 21 feet - to let us go where our sailing boat can't take us. We keep our boat in Poole and with a 2-metre draught she's a wee bit restricted. While I could bore for Britain on the subject of yachts I really don't know where to begin on power boats except that Bayliners are sometimes called Binliners.

I'd appreciate any views on the hierarchy of small power boats in terms of quality and is there any advantage/disadvantage in outboard versus in board.

Any info and views would be very gratefully received.

Peter

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[mainshiptom]

My first boat was an Abin 25 , suberb sea boat which sleeps four in cofort !

You can get into canals and rivers easily , nice to handle easy to maintain and a great build finish, Loved her !

Very good small cruiser, i would buy her again.

Tom

ps mine had a 25hp Diesel did a good 8 knots and very cheap to run, Bought in Plymouth and kept in Chiswick london , The best bit was the delivery trip 5 g;ourious days.



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[Solitaire]

Phew! You concise post is not easy to answer/forums/images/icons/smile.gif Within the length range you are talking there are a lot of options and deciding on these will depend on the type of boating you are looking to do. By using the heading "small motor crusier" I assume you would be looking for at least a cabin for overnight accomodation - I presume you have this on your sailboat?

In the 21ft range you have cuddy cabin boats which will just about accomodate two people and would be fine for the odd overnight trip. Most cuddy cabins are now produced by US builders, such as Bayliner, SeaRay Regal, Glastron(a lot on this forum have heard enougfh about Glastrons of late /forums/images/icons/wink.gif) etc. Bayliners did have the name "binliner" but the build qualitity has improved much over the last few years - I had a Bayliner 2052 cuddy with a 3ltr inboard mercrusier - good boat! The only thing I would say about American boats is that they are built for what I call soft inland waters and lakes. I've had two Bayliners and the ride in a good Solent chop can be very hard and unforgiving. Also they can shake apart internally in a rough sea. I have a Fairline Sprint (engine up the crrek at the moment) but she handles Uk waters very well and is solidly built. Another good UK boat is the Flectcher whcih can be either inboard or outboard, again good hulls for UK conditions. If I were looking for a boat within your range now - of course I don't know what your price range is - I would certainly go for the Fairline Sprint again, followed by Fletcher and then SeaRay within the first choice US boats.
Regarding outboard vs inboard. Again depending on age and price range, older outboards will tend to be 2 stroke and are less fuel effcient than inboards, the new 4 stroke outboards are good, but within the Motor Cruiser range you will most likley find inboard with stern driove options - Volvo and Mercrusier. Fletcher did use outboards on their 19 fts.
To be honest, the best advice I can give is to try as many boats as you can, they each have their own characteristics and you need to find one that suits you. Another boat worth looking at, but its 23 foot is the Falcon.
There will be many differeing views on this forum, but my expereicne within the Solent area would be to look at Europen hulls first = Fairline Sprint (but I'm biased) Fletcher also look at Windy and Draco. Cranchi are also worth considering, but again your budget will dictate. Happy to have you PM me if you would like an opinion on anything you may see. As I said at the start of this response, a small post but long answers - good luck!




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[tcm]

Re: an idea

ahem, i am assuming this isn't a windup as a certain ex-forumite has a 21 footer?...

anyway.

For UK waters with iffy weather, I would have a look at a Botnia targa. These are every so boaty and yottie. Drive or sit inside or out. Not cheap tho.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.targa.fi/botniamarin/index.php?page=boats/targa23_data#>http://www.targa.fi/botniamarin/index.php?page=boats/targa23_data#</A>

Sports boats are great on good days, but most in uk are driven with camper tops on or at the ready, instead of bikini tops on (off?) as designed.

Inboards will tend to be heavier diesel, and on this size of boat (as botnia targa)will have a z-drive (also known as outdrive, or outdrive leg, or leg) to get the propellor low in the water, and still allow engine (usually just the one at this size) to be sited at transom giving more useable space in boat.

Outboards are for high speed yahoo fun. Cheap installation, great on RIBs and any sports/fisher that needs 40knots+. Generally petrol, of course, and more a motorbike for the sea. Instead of cabins you have deck locker, wetsuit and a credit card for an hotel. Cross-channel in 90 minutes.





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[dog]

Hi Peter, I can only speak as I find. I was brought up on raggies, hunter, contessa etc (im gonna get slung off here now!!!)

I bought a Fairline weekend a couple of years ago on a fairly tight budget, and have so far had a HUGE amount of fun out of it. I obviously have to watch the weather for coastal stuff, but have been to Harwich, Mersea/Blackwater, Brightlingsea with her so far a few times from the Crouch, plus a lot of local exploring and weekending. I think I got to use her almost every weekend during June/July/Aug/sept last year!!!

She has the same hull as the later sprints. You can pick up weekends for a fairly modest price- just be prepared for petrol prices!!

Hope this may be of some help...

Brian.



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[Renegade_Master]

Re: an idea

How about Aquador

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[AJW]

If you are only looking for day use rather than overnighting onboard then without question go for a RIB. Get you all the places you want to go at high and low speeds and far more cachet than equivalent size sportsboat. (i.e. your yottie friends wont disown you.). Also you already have all the neccessary wet weather gear and delight in getting wet and salty cos you spend many hours in an open cockpit in all weathers so its the natural choice. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

If you want a cabin then differnet ballgame. Howabout a Channel Islands 22? Mini-Nelson looks plus weekending for two.

AJ

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[gjgm]

Can only speak from my limited experience, but the comments about Solent in a smaller boat are very true. You may find 21ft a bit small unless you like your boating lively, or scarey if its erindoors. Do you stay aboard your sailing boat? Other idea, if its just dayboating, pottering up creeks and rivers, do you really need the cabin, rather than a b+b ? If you stay small enough to trail, then all sorts of places are within reach than you wouldnt otherwise have considered. And the smaller, the more (non-marina fee charging) slipways you can use. Otherwise, I doubt anything is so badly built you shouldnt buy it. Cost is in quality of the finish and style and size of the engine. In fact, nearly all in the engine ! Just have a look around, and you can see why some cost so much more.A VERY rough guide, 3.0l 5gph, 4.3l 7.0gph and 5.0 10.0gph. And if you want to zoom along you can whack those up alot. Remember these sportsboats are meant to be on the plane. But their draught is usually 80-90cm(before tilting the leg), so should get you most places.

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[jon_bailey]

I have a Maxum 2100 SC which has a cuddy and we have been very pleased with. One of the good things about the Maxum is the 21 degree dead rise that gives it a better ride than many of the other American sportsboats.

In terms of American quality then probably Searay at top, followed by Maxum, Four Winns, Glastron + others and finally Bayliners. BrendanS will also put Regal somewhere near the top! All IMHO and it would certainly be difficult/unlucky to buy a really poor boat if less than 10 years old.

Engine is probably as important as hull and you'll probably find that the Mercruiser I/O will be just as reliable but with lower servicing/spares costs than the equivalent Volvo. Both use the same Chevy blocks. Diesels are much more difficult to find at 21ft and would probably not justify the substantial premium compared to petrol.

For more info see my web site (boat no longer for sale) or send PM.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.btconnect.com/bailey>http://home.btconnect.com/bailey</A>





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[parm]

have a look at sealine 22, 215,240

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[BarryH]

Theres a nice little Sealine 195 for sale on the Wareham River at Redliffe. One owner been looked after and fairly roomy for its size. Its been to france once or twice and is fitted with a Volvo 151 on an outdrive. Comes with a trailer as well I think. Looks to be a tidy boat in good condition. Sleeps 2 in cabin and 2 more under the canopy with cooking and ablutions on board would make a good weekender. Its up for 12K, don't know if this is a good price.

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[andrewa]

The Sea Ray 215 and 225 are nice boats, I think 225 gets a proper loo as well. Though can only sleep 2 in cabin and 2 in cockpit.


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[Alistairr]

Jon,
Where does Rinker feature in all this?

Peter,
For over a year and 3 boat shows I had looked at every cuddy on the market from19' to 25' and felt the Rinker was the most solid of all the boats, when trying the Searay, it felt light and wanted to go where the waves went not where i wanted it to go!! I also feel the Rinker is very well screwed together and trimed on the inside. Yes i am now the very proud owner of a brand new Rinker which i have been enjoying emencly. We sleep on it every weekend, i am 6'4" tall and there is bags off space in it. We had a fabulous day on sunday past and even managed to cruise at 55mph on slight waves, Pretty impressive for a boat weighing over 2tons

Cheers...


Alistair.
.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hamptonandmcmurray.co.uk>Hampton and McMurray</A>

 

[Alistairr]

Bye the way, I much prefered the Maxum to the Searay..



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hamptonandmcmurray.co.uk>Hampton and McMurray</A>

 

[pkb]

Thanks for the input. What's dead rise? Peter

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[jon_bailey]

Alastair,

Nothing at all wrong with Rinker just not that familiar with them. I'm sure yours is a very nice boat with 260 horses and Bravo 3.

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[tcm]

loosely, dead rise is how sharp the V bottom of the hull is, the bigger the number the sharper the V. Flat hull give more space and bomb along with minimum power, but sharper v's hulls ("deep-vee") are better needed for anything going to sea otherwise bangity slam slam ouch jeez ow.

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[jon_bailey]

Peter

Deadrise is the angle between the hull and the waterline at the rear (transom end) of boat.

The higher the angle the more of a V shape and in theory the ride in a chop is likely to be less 'slammy'. Of course there is much more to hull design than the relatively simple deadrise angle and ride can be quite subjective. Although it is difficult to generalise then it is almost certain that for a similar length of hull a 18 deg deadrise will be more slammy that a 21 deg one.

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[BrendanS]

Not at transom. The deadrise given in information about the boat, is usually the steepest deadrise in the hull.

For instance, my hull has a variable deadrise. 24 degree deadrise at the bow and forward third of the hull (where it's needed for piercing waves for a comfortable ride) This drops off to a much decreased deadrise at the transom, probably less than 10 degrees - flat pads that provide planing ability

<hr width=100% size=1>Err, let me know if Depsol enters the forum, I'll go and hide

 

[tcm]

where\'s deadrise measured?

I thought halfway between bow and stern. But anyway, bigger is better for sea.

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