----==== Which kayak to choose. HELP pls =====------

40KG sounds like a stupidly large amount of equipment to take. I used to go cycle camping with about a third of that weight which included tent, sleep system, cooking system, clothes and tools plus food for 24 hours. The weight wouldn't be so much of a problem in a canoe (none of those you've posted are kayaks in spite of the marketing BS claiming they are) although if you have to portage for a lock or weir you'll soon regret taking so much stuff. It's more about the bulk. Inflatables are notoriously limited for space.

The only canoe you posted which looks anything other than a pool toy is the one with the drop stick floor. Even then I'd question how well it handles cross winds and how well it tracks. Tracking is very important as you'll use a huge amount of extra energy trying to keep a canoe which doesn't track well in a straight line. My own inflatable is an Advanced Elements Sport which has a metal shaping frame in the bow and stern to give them a proper kayak bow and stern shape. This gives it a performance comparable to a similar length rigid kayak but it's over you budget and TBH it would be a struggle to carry even the most carefully selected minimum amount of gear for an over-nighter so I wouldn't recommend it for your purpose even if you could afford it. Were I minded to do what you're doing (which I'm not) I'd go for the Advanced Elements Expedition which, as the name implies, is made for such tasks. It's twice your budget though so a non-started for you.
 
I’ve paddled the Thames at least two times over the years both in roto moulded kayaks, would never consider doing it in an inflatable, you would tire very quickly with any wind and current. The Thames is often much rougher than you would expect and inflatable sit quite high and don’t track to well and as they are wide difficult to paddle with any power
As a white water kayak coach if I was doing it again would higher a longer touring sea kayak this would make it very easy and you could carry loads of stuff
 
Hi Thriftyarek888,

Inflatables are chosen in application where storage space is limited.
RIB have a rigid bottom because the soft bottoms are bad for keeping a shape at speed even paddling speed.
Otherwise all racing kayaks would be inflatables.

Rig your inflatable yacht tender with a mast and sail. This thing will sail as good as your inflatable kayak will be paddled. They are horrible for the intended purpose.

If you are a biginner you will probably not even be able to paddle a kayak without rudder in a straight line, let alone with some cross wind. Avoid any type ofe Canoe/Canacian where you have only one paddle (Red Indian style) you'd have to master the J-stroke to go straight.

You can find very good travel kayaks amongst the folding type - that is a skeleton with a skin around it - but they are very costly when bought new. Here you have small storage space combined with relatively high rigidity and also stability on the water.

If this is a once off 24 hour adventure, go to a serious kayak shop tell them what you want to do (they will then see how tall you are, what your weight is, what the luggage carrying capacity of your kayak should be) and RENT the boat for this one trip.
At least try a rigid touring kayak and any inflatable kayak before you buy anything.

Then you will see during the trip :
-do I like kayaking,
-how did the rented boat perform (not that you will have a broad basis to comparre with)
-how much money do I have to spend to have decent gear.

Books have been written about kayaking on white water, on flatwater rivers, on lakes and on the sea and the choice of the right boat.
Rather ask your questions on a kayaking forum, if you really want to hear personal opinions. But there you will get inundated with details.

In my opinion most of the kayaks carried on sailing boats up to 40 feet are compromises between storage space on the yacht and a wide variety of uses for the kayak. (Paddling for shopping, paddling through Venice, exploring some shallow protected coastal waters and lagoons, paddling on stretches of exposed coastline, many more.

if you paddle down the Thames, you should get the proper boat for that one purpose. It is not good to find out to have the wrong boat once you are half a day into the journey.

Now read J. J. Jeromes "Three men in a boat" and look forward to your adventure.

Cheers, G.
 
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RivalRedwing said:
The OP really needs to come back and tell us where on the Thames he intends to use this craft, then we can advise with greater confidence...
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The OP is possibly/probably an AI, generated by our wily hosts to keep the traffic up on their platform, and to make us click on a few of their sponsor’s products - in this case sh1t inflatable kayaks.
 
I'm surprised that I haven't seen Sevylor or Stearns mentioned. At one time they seemed to dominate the market for inflatable kayaks and canoes; I had a one man Stearns kayak, and it was fine (I have used a rigid kayak, of the wood and canvas kind!). Directional stability not a problem because of small skegs at the stern, inflatable floor and the inflatable tubes in a fabric outer cover. Of course more wind-rode than a rigid kayak, but not so much so - it had no more freeboard than a rigid kayak when manned.
 
SIL purchased an cheap inflateable for fun use on the upper Thames.
Moored at Hampton Court and launched kayak.
Did not take long to puncture on something sharp when beaching.
In the skip very shortly after.
 
Any excuse to plug alluring arctic. We have done some fun (not as epic as the below) things in our inflatable kayak, it’s a great way to explore. I have no frame of reference for rigid kayaks, but I do know I have no chance keeping up with it rowing our dinghy 🤣.

 
Daverw said:
I’ve paddled the Thames at least two times over the years both in roto moulded kayaks, would never consider doing it in an inflatable, you would tire very quickly with any wind and current. The Thames is often much rougher than you would expect and inflatable sit quite high and don’t track to well and as they are wide difficult to paddle with any power
As a white water kayak coach if I was doing it again would higher a longer touring sea kayak this would make it very easy and you could carry loads of stuff
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Would a complete novice be OK in a sea kayak though? My impression from watching lots of YouTube videos is that they're not very stable and you really need to go a training course to learn how to handle on, do capsize/recovery and so on.
 
Puffin10032 said:
Would a complete novice be OK in a sea kayak though? My impression from watching lots of YouTube videos is that they're not very stable and you really need to go a training course to learn how to handle on, do capsize/recovery and so on.
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Not an issue with normal touring kayaks, different situation though when used at sea
 
The Canadians must be disappointed that the type of craft are not suitable for large lakes and their rivers.

Yes I have done lots of multi day trips in both. A Canadian canoe is very good for large loads. hire companies do rent out these out to novices.
 
Puffin10032 said:
Would a complete novice be OK in a sea kayak though? My impression from watching lots of YouTube videos is that they're not very stable and you really need to go a training course to learn how to handle on, do capsize/recovery and so on.
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Training
Yes, you certainly do need training (whether formal or otherwise) to safely take a canoe or kayak to sea.

You are very vulnerable to a wide range of potential hazards, many of which aren't obvious to the newbie, but can be mitigated. (You will sooner or later capsize, for instance. Then what?) Why kill or embarrass yourself, and potentially put others in danger, when you can enjoyably learn from the experience of others?

Stability
A very stable canoe or kayak is undesirable at sea. For example, you don't want to be perpendicular to the front and back slopes of every passing wave! It can also affect how easy/achievable it is to roll the kayak back up after a capsize.

A very stable canoe/kayak is only really suitable for calm flat sheltered water, and has the added disadvantage of being slow/harder work to paddle than something tippy. (Note also there's different types of stability - initial versus secondary.)
 
Mister E said:
All the replies make me wonder how people get on paddling Canadian canoes as they have all the problems mentioned.
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billskip said:
Yes, Sandra Dickinson, used to paddle a Canadian canoe on the Thames, she didn't seem to have any problems...
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Mister E said:
The Canadians must be disappointed that the type of craft are not suitable for large lakes and their rivers.

Yes I have done lots of multi day trips in both. A Canadian canoe is very good for large loads. hire companies do rent out these out to novices.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, people have paddled Canadian canoes across big lakes in poor weather (historically because they had to!), but -

1) there is a world of difference between a good, suitably designed for open water, rigid Canadian canoe and the sort of inflatable toy the OP is considering (which are great for what they are intended, but that is something very different); and

2) a Canadian canoe is at an immediate significant disadvantage at sea compared to a sea kayak - it has a awful lot of windage, it is pushed around more by wav es (in a sea kayak they just wash over), and (unless modified) they are open to the sea and hold an awful lot of water. (At sea you will be going through waves and have them break into your boat, and is much more work to paddle because of the windage and greater wetted area, you have only half a paddle, and every stroke is trying to turn your craft and J-stroke to compensate is additional work/strain.)

The paddling of a sea kayak is much more efficient - you are sat low in the water, you don't have the sides of the canoe in your way and making each paddle stroke less efficient and further from the centre-line, you are using both sides of your body (also avoids strain) and pushing the boat along efficiently with your feet, your knees are firmly braced against the hull making it easy and efficient to lean/bring upright the boat.

For exposed water you will ideally have most of a Canadian canoe covered so waves wash over, rather than into it, and be largely filled with buoyancy bags to reduce the volume of water inevitably accumulating in the boat. You need the canoe fitted out with pads and bars to firmly brace yourself both laterally and longitudinally (people focus on paddles in the water, but you are actually transmitting that force through your body to push the boat along - how firmly and comfortably you are connected to the boat doesn't matter much pottering about in flat water, but is really very important in rough conditions and if you are going to cover distance). You need all your gear waterproof and firmly attached to the boat, not just sitting in the bottom of the boat- spare paddles and bailer a must, extra clothing, emergency food & water, first aid kit, whistle, torch(es), VHF(?)/flares(?)/EPIRB(?), chart(s), compass, etc. etc.

The shape of any Canadian canoe (or kayak) for open sea use is very different from that for flat water and for white-water rivers. You want something that tends to track straight (waves and wind will all the time be trying to push you off course, correcting that is hard work), that favours very long and thin, and is not easily manoeuverable without special techniques. You don't want something too stable (for reasons outlined in my previous post).

I have both a Canadian canoe and a sea kayak, and paddle both (and have done for years, Uk and abroad), but I wouldn't take my Canadian to sea except in sheltered water, calm conditions and onshore winds. By contrast, I have done e.g. long open sea crossings in the sea kayak, been in the Atlantic off the coast of Ireland with massive vertical cliffs of an island in one direction and nothing between me and Brazil the other, been out in rough weather, been through overfalls and surf, etc.

I thoroughly enjoy using the Canadian canoe in sheltered rivers and lakes, and (only with experienced others around) very modest white water. I can wear ordinary clothes, take an inexperienced chum, take a picnic in a carrier bag in the bottom of the boat, lie in the bottom myself for a snooze, and it's easier to get into and out of, etc. but it's much more work to paddle and that also means I can't go any great distance, and while any Canadian is no match for a sea kayak in rough conditions and bad weather, my particular Canadian is, like most of them, best suited to calm, sheltered conditions - it's typical in that it's too flat-bottomed (high initial stability, low secondary stability) for speed or coping with waves/swell, doesn't track straight enough for use at sea while at the same time isn't manoeuvrable enough for real white water.
 
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LittleSister said:
Yes, of course, people have paddled Canadian canoes across big lakes in poor weather (historically because they had to!), but -

1) there is a world of difference between a good, suitably designed for open water, rigid Canadian canoe and the sort of inflatable toy the OP is considering (which are great for what they are intended, but that is something very different); and

2) a Canadian canoe is at an immediate significant disadvantage at sea compared to a sea kayak - it has a awful lot of windage, it is pushed around more by wav es (in a sea kayak they just wash over), and (unless modified) they are open to the sea and hold an awful lot of water. (At sea you will be going through waves and have them break into your boat, and is much more work to paddle because of the windage and greater wetted area, you have only half a paddle, and every stroke is trying to turn your craft and J-stroke to compensate is additional work/strain.)

The paddling of a sea kayak is much more efficient - you are sat low in the water, you don't have the sides of the canoe in your way and making each paddle stroke less efficient and further from the centre-line, you are using both sides of your body (also avoids strain) and pushing the boat along efficiently with your feet, your knees are firmly braced against the hull making it easy and efficient to lean/bring upright the boat.

For exposed water you will ideally have most of a Canadian canoe covered so waves wash over, rather than into it, and be largely filled with buoyancy bags to reduce the volume of water inevitably accumulating in the boat. You need the canoe fitted out with pads and bars to firmly brace yourself both laterally and longitudinally (people focus on paddles in the water, but you are actually transmitting that force through your body to push the boat along - how firmly and comfortably you are connected to the boat doesn't matter much pottering about in flat water, but is really very important in rough conditions and if you are going to cover distance). You need all your gear waterproof and firmly attached to the boat, not just sitting in the bottom of the boat- spare paddles and bailer a must, extra clothing, emergency food & water, first aid kit, whistle, torch(es), VHF(?)/flares(?)/EPIRB(?), chart(s), compass, etc. etc.

The shape of any Canadian canoe (or kayak) for open sea use is very different from that for flat water and for white-water rivers. You want something that tends to track straight (waves and wind will all the time be trying to push you off course, correcting that is hard work), that favours very long and thin, and is not easily manoeuverable without special techniques. You don't want something too stable (for reasons outlined in my previous post).

I have both a Canadian canoe and a sea kayak, and paddle both (and have done for years, Uk and abroad), but I wouldn't take my Canadian to sea except in sheltered water, calm conditions and onshore winds. By contrast, I have done e.g. long open sea crossings in the sea kayak, been in the Atlantic off the coast of Ireland with massive vertical cliffs of an island in one direction and nothing between me and Brazil the other, been out in rough weather, been through overfalls and surf, etc.

I thoroughly enjoy using the Canadian canoe in sheltered rivers and lakes, and (only with experienced others around) very modest white water. I can wear ordinary clothes, take an inexperienced chum, take a picnic in a carrier bag in the bottom of the boat, lie in the bottom myself for a snooze, and it's easier to get into and out of, etc. but it's much more work to paddle and that also means I can't go any great distance, and while any Canadian is no match for a sea kayak in rough conditions and bad weather, my particular Canadian is, like most of them, best suited to calm, sheltered conditions - it's typically in that it's too flat-bottomed (high initial stability, low secondary stability) for speed or coping with waves/swell, doesn't track straight enough for use at sea while at the same time isn't manoeuvrable enough for real white water.
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Some of us want to have fun, enjoy life differently to you I suppose..(I can guess your nex comment 😉)
 
billskip said:
Some of us want to have fun, enjoy life differently to you I suppose.
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Are we disagreeing? :unsure:

I've only ever done canoeing and kayaking for fun. Is there any other reason to do it I should know about?

I want others to have fun, and being out at sea in an unsuitable boat is certainly no fun. I am just offering some of my knowledge in the hope that others might maximise their fun by either get the boat that best suits their needs, or use the boat they have where it can best be enjoyed, or just find it interesting enough to while away a few idle moments. Anyone is free to ignore it.

billskip said:
(I can guess your nex comment 😉)
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That's curious I couldn't. :unsure:
 
I have a proper fibreglass sea kayak that is 18ft long and paddles fast and straight. Yours for £400 . I can send pics etc if you message me.
 
LittleSister said:
Training
Yes, you certainly do need training (whether formal or otherwise) to safely take a canoe or kayak to sea.

You are very vulnerable to a wide range of potential hazards, many of which aren't obvious to the newbie, but can be mitigated. (You will sooner or later capsize, for instance. Then what?) Why kill or embarrass yourself, and potentially put others in danger, when you can enjoyably learn from the experience of others?

Stability
A very stable canoe or kayak is undesirable at sea. For example, you don't want to be perpendicular to the front and back slopes of every passing wave! It can also affect how easy/achievable it is to roll the kayak back up after a capsize.

A very stable canoe/kayak is only really suitable for calm flat sheltered water, and has the added disadvantage of being slow/harder work to paddle than something tippy. (Note also there's different types of stability - initial versus secondary.)
Click to expand...

Thank you. It's comforting to find out that I'm on the right track. I bought my own inflatable kayak for use on the local canal. I can actually go 4 miles in either direction before reaching a lock and 8 miles of paddling in one day is more that enough for me. No way I'd feel comfortable taking it on the sea though. But I've got a sailing dinghy for that plus 50+ years of dinghy sailing experience so it's not really an issue for me. Truth be told I've hardly used the kayak because I'd rather go sailing.
 
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