C
Chrusty1
Guest
"Anyway, aren't you one of those trolls I've been warned about."
Oh more than likely! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Oh more than likely! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Which is stand-on vessel?
- Thread starter bobgarrett
- Start date
Blue5
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I Sail in the Solent all the time
I often give way, showing a large altererration to course to convey my intentions.
I work on the principle, lets not give them a hard time .
Be they racing, towing or just having a good day!!
its a small stetch of water that we are all trying to use!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well put sir, IMO I think the OP displayed very poor seamanship in not recognising a fellow mariners misfortune and altering course but if he had his racing head on............................
I Sail in the Solent all the time
I often give way, showing a large altererration to course to convey my intentions.
I work on the principle, lets not give them a hard time .
Be they racing, towing or just having a good day!!
its a small stetch of water that we are all trying to use!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well put sir, IMO I think the OP displayed very poor seamanship in not recognising a fellow mariners misfortune and altering course but if he had his racing head on............................
Elessar
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nevertheless, I doubt many yachts have three balls on board!
[/ QUOTE ]
if they did they'd be indicating they'd gone aground...........
Nevertheless, I doubt many yachts have three balls on board!
[/ QUOTE ]
if they did they'd be indicating they'd gone aground...........
Blackfeather
Well-Known Member
I can't believe you would even think to refer to Colregs in a situation like that. If you have ever had to tow any boat of any size, and know how momentum and a steady course is so important,you would not have hesitated to give him plenty of room.
The fact that you didn't and he had to yell at you says more about you than him.
He has my sympathy.
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
The fact that you didn't and he had to yell at you says more about you than him.
He has my sympathy.
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
You did the right thing in getting out of his way - it was no doubt helpful to them.
On the technical point about who was stand-on towing yachts in good conditions is pretty straightforward (with the proviso that it depends on what the vessels were carrying out the manoever). So long as they take early action they are quite able to satisfy the regs. They may well have been outside of their 'comfort zone', or maybe the water was busy enough to make it complicated. Their 'restiriction in the ability to manoever' was probably not as hard as what a Thames barge goes through on a normal day, and they obey the regs.
Whatever their reasons staying away was sensible.
On the technical point about who was stand-on towing yachts in good conditions is pretty straightforward (with the proviso that it depends on what the vessels were carrying out the manoever). So long as they take early action they are quite able to satisfy the regs. They may well have been outside of their 'comfort zone', or maybe the water was busy enough to make it complicated. Their 'restiriction in the ability to manoever' was probably not as hard as what a Thames barge goes through on a normal day, and they obey the regs.
Whatever their reasons staying away was sensible.
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
GOD,
I am so glad I dont sail in the Solent!
Please make sure none of them make it past the forts or the needles.
In turn I promise never to roam near their pond
AMEN
I am so glad I dont sail in the Solent!
Please make sure none of them make it past the forts or the needles.
In turn I promise never to roam near their pond
AMEN
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Amen indeed Bro! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
exfinnsailor
Well-Known Member
Think I would have kept well away .. The towed vessel could have been trailing 20m of fishing net it had caught .. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
bbg
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe you would even think to refer to Colregs in a situation like that.
...
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't believe you wouldn't think of referring to the Colregs in any potential collision situation. It is what they are there for.
The OP DID comply with the Colregs, by taking avoiding action when it was clear the other party wasn't going to do so.
Ignore the Colregs all you like, but insulting the OP because he complied with them, and then came on this board to post a question, is arrogant and dim.
I can't believe you would even think to refer to Colregs in a situation like that.
...
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't believe you wouldn't think of referring to the Colregs in any potential collision situation. It is what they are there for.
The OP DID comply with the Colregs, by taking avoiding action when it was clear the other party wasn't going to do so.
Ignore the Colregs all you like, but insulting the OP because he complied with them, and then came on this board to post a question, is arrogant and dim.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Given how light the winds were yesterday (at least where I was) I would think the yachts towing and under tow would have greater ability to manoeuvre than a yacht sailing. He certainly does not have the right to blunder along expecting sailing yachts to scatter.
If I were sailing I would not 'cut up' a yacht towing and expect him to make a sharp turn, if I were towing, I would try to predict what yachts racing were doing and give them room to avoid me. The most likely reason for towing yesterday would be 'retired from racing due to lack of wind'. In that case I would respect those who were still racing.
Probably a case of nerves frayed by the heat in the frustrating conditions yesterday.
If they had been racing (ensign or class flag?) and were on their way home, they would be in trouble under RRS rule 23 and could be DSQ from their race!
If I were sailing I would not 'cut up' a yacht towing and expect him to make a sharp turn, if I were towing, I would try to predict what yachts racing were doing and give them room to avoid me. The most likely reason for towing yesterday would be 'retired from racing due to lack of wind'. In that case I would respect those who were still racing.
Probably a case of nerves frayed by the heat in the frustrating conditions yesterday.
If they had been racing (ensign or class flag?) and were on their way home, they would be in trouble under RRS rule 23 and could be DSQ from their race!
Elessar
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you didn't and he had to yell at you says more about you than him.
He has my sympathy.
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrog
ant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
The OP didint quote the regs he had them shouted at him.
The rules are clear, the sailing vessel should give way. The towing vessel needs no shapes as the tow is less than 200m.
However the spirit of the rules dictate that the most easily manouvrable vessel gives way, and anyway common courtest suggests the towing boat should have changed course early.
To shout the regs at the sailing boat was as unneccessarily rude as your post frankly. It was an interesting exchange of views until you lowered the tone.
The fact that you didn't and he had to yell at you says more about you than him.
He has my sympathy.
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrog
ant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
The OP didint quote the regs he had them shouted at him.
The rules are clear, the sailing vessel should give way. The towing vessel needs no shapes as the tow is less than 200m.
However the spirit of the rules dictate that the most easily manouvrable vessel gives way, and anyway common courtest suggests the towing boat should have changed course early.
To shout the regs at the sailing boat was as unneccessarily rude as your post frankly. It was an interesting exchange of views until you lowered the tone.
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Ultimately you did the correct thing in altering course when it became apparent to you that the other vessel was not going to take any action.
However, having been involved in a fair few number of tows (including having to be towed once ourselves), in your shoes I would have also kept well clear of the tug and tow as it boils down to the practice of good seamanship.
It's not easy to tow another boat, especially with a yacht and the skipper may have just been nervous about being in close quarters situations with other boats.
However, having been involved in a fair few number of tows (including having to be towed once ourselves), in your shoes I would have also kept well clear of the tug and tow as it boils down to the practice of good seamanship.
It's not easy to tow another boat, especially with a yacht and the skipper may have just been nervous about being in close quarters situations with other boats.
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe you would even think to refer to Colregs in a situation like that. If you have ever had to tow any boat of any size, and know how momentum and a steady course is so important,you would not have hesitated to give him plenty of room.
[snip]
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
What an arrogant statement.
I have towed numerous vessels - including a long string of Optimists complete with helm in every one - now that _was_ restricted in ability to manouver - however, when towing you look further ahead than you would otherwise and choose a course that is less likely to get you into a situation with others.
towing a single vessel in a close tow I wouldn't consider myself to be restricted at all - well, not with the size of vessel I was capable of towing!
I can't believe you would even think to refer to Colregs in a situation like that. If you have ever had to tow any boat of any size, and know how momentum and a steady course is so important,you would not have hesitated to give him plenty of room.
[snip]
Quote the fine points of the Colregs all you like but standing on in those circumstances is arrogant and dim.
[/ QUOTE ]
What an arrogant statement.
I have towed numerous vessels - including a long string of Optimists complete with helm in every one - now that _was_ restricted in ability to manouver - however, when towing you look further ahead than you would otherwise and choose a course that is less likely to get you into a situation with others.
towing a single vessel in a close tow I wouldn't consider myself to be restricted at all - well, not with the size of vessel I was capable of towing!
lw395
Well-Known Member
If I were the towing vessel, I would not want to rely on falling with the definition of RAM, because in general that should not be the case. If I am not confident of being able to keep clear, I find that shouting something like 'Sorry chaps, we've got a bit of a problem here, can you give us a little space please?' gets a much more helpful response that trying to claim dubious 'rights'. Just towing an engineless yacht due to no wind is a lot different from towing a yacht with jammed steering. If I had the steering problem, I'd let the other boats around know. If we'd retired due to lack of wind or finished our race, I'd respect those still racing. A yacht towing another can generally turn quite a tight circle. A broken down mobo would be a different matter, especially it had a stern drive!
In practice, if you are both aware of each other well before shouting distance, it's best to try to avoid each other mutually.
In practice, if you are both aware of each other well before shouting distance, it's best to try to avoid each other mutually.
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
In practice, I think I would have done the same.
Things get to confusing if the 'non-give way' vessel gives way. There again, it is every masters duty to avoid collision so I think you acted correctly.
BTW, there is no such thing as a 'stand on vessel' in the colregs. (said the pedant) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Things get to confusing if the 'non-give way' vessel gives way. There again, it is every masters duty to avoid collision so I think you acted correctly.
BTW, there is no such thing as a 'stand on vessel' in the colregs. (said the pedant) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
lw395
Well-Known Member
Slowboat, if you are going to be pedantic, best check your sources.
Rule 17, Action by Stand-on Vessel
The phrase that does not appear is 'right of way', but the semantics of that are not very useful imho.
Rule 17, Action by Stand-on Vessel
The phrase that does not appear is 'right of way', but the semantics of that are not very useful imho.
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
Hence the smiley. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jenku
Well-Known Member
I have been towed quite a long distance by no less than Mr. Refueler here, and he did give way to tacking sailboats several times, at least once by slowing down (and no I did not bump into him and he even did announce over VHF that he would slow down in order to give way as it was easier than changing course).
OK, my boat is quite small, but it isn't a rubber dinghy...
OK, my boat is quite small, but it isn't a rubber dinghy...
Mariner69
Well-Known Member
"BTW, there is no such thing as a 'stand on vessel' in the colregs. (said the pedant)"
Rule 17 Action by stand-on vessel. ?
In the colregs isn't it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
WOW wish I could type more quickly /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Rule 17 Action by stand-on vessel. ?
In the colregs isn't it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
WOW wish I could type more quickly /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, there is no such thing as a 'stand on vessel' in the colregs. (said the pedant)
[/ QUOTE ]
Rule 17 - Action by Stand-on Vessel .... hmm - but of there is no such thing then that rule can be deleted .... (said the pendant!)
[edit]Oh bow locks ... too slow by half!![/edit]
BTW, there is no such thing as a 'stand on vessel' in the colregs. (said the pedant)
[/ QUOTE ]
Rule 17 - Action by Stand-on Vessel .... hmm - but of there is no such thing then that rule can be deleted .... (said the pendant!)
[edit]Oh bow locks ... too slow by half!![/edit]