Which Boat for World Cruising Liveaboard

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Hiya,

My partner and I are looking at taking a year off to go sailing, and would welcome any wisdom on which boats would be good to consider (we've bareboated 2-3 weeks per summer in the Med for the last 3 years).

We're looking at spending spring/summer 2011 in the Med, going with the ARC to Caribbean in the autumn, turing the islands, and sailing back in May 2012. We'll add some extra crew for the trans-Atlantic crossings.

For a boat, we're thinking something around 40'-45', and have been eying up boats from Jeanneau, Beneteau, and Bavaria. We're looking at picking something up from a ex-charter sale in the Med at the end of this charter season (November) and storing it until April when we set off (we'll get a survey before any purchase). Something about 10 years old. We're looking to spend something in the range of £50k-£60k including kitting it out for bluewater sailing.

At the moment a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 from 1998-2002 seems to be holding top position on my wishlist.

So, any special recommendations or tips of things out of the ordinary we ought to look at, or just general advice for first time boat buyers.

Many thanks -- Erich < erich@mindyourhead.org >
 
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ESS said:
So, any special recommendations or tips of things out of the ordinary we ought to look at, or just general advice for first time boat buyers.
Click to expand...

Get a Vancouver 28. It'll set you back about 40k, and it's ready for big sailing. That's what I'd do anyway if I had your budget. :p
 
From my experience of boats, I have come to the conclusion that for long distance voyaging with big seas, directional stability is ESSENTIAL. Why? Because the last long keeler I had would log 8.5 -0 knts and the ground covered would be just that.

I now have a Fin and spade rudder and if I log 8.5 knots down wind, the ground covered will be at least 1 knot less (allowing for tide). I really had not appreciated this before. The long keeler required little steering down wind, the GPS track was straight. My Westerly Ocean lord (which has a long fin keel) was much more work (but very manageable) but looking at the GPS track it looked like a snake. I have also sailed a Bavaria 38 Holiday in a similar environment, and it was unmanageable in similar seas.....

So if you are ocean voyaging think about this important factor. If you are tootaling around the Med, then perhaps it is not so important.
 
If you are buying an ex-charter boat at the end of its contract it will be only 6 or maybe 7 years old. You will not get such a boat in that size range including VAT for your budget, even less likely to get it equipped to do the Atlantic circuit.

A charter boat is well equipped for drifting from island to island, but you will need a budget of anything up to £10k to do long distance cruising properly. As others have pointed out AWBs are not necessarily the best choice for long distance cruising, although increasingly they are being used because builders do not offer more "traditional" designs at affordable prices.

Your basic idea is sound. Sail Ionian did the ARC with one of their Bavaria 46s last year, but with quite a lot of mods and a big crew. However, your budget is not big enough for that size of boat. My Bavaria 37 is an ex charter boat (2001) and there are some of similar vintage - or 36s on the market that might just fit within your budget. Do not underestimate the cost of bringing such a boat up to standard, particularly if you are doing it in Greece (where most of the boats are) because costs are at least 50% higher on average than in the UK.
 
ESS said:
Hiya,

My partner and I are looking at taking a year off to go sailing, and would welcome any wisdom on which boats would be good to consider (we've bareboated 2-3 weeks per summer in the Med for the last 3 years).

We're looking at spending spring/summer 2011 in the Med, going with the ARC to Caribbean in the autumn, turing the islands, and sailing back in May 2012. We'll add some extra crew for the trans-Atlantic crossings.

For a boat, we're thinking something around 40'-45', and have been eying up boats from Jeanneau, Beneteau, and Bavaria. We're looking at picking something up from a ex-charter sale in the Med at the end of this charter season (November) and storing it until April when we set off (we'll get a survey before any purchase). Something about 10 years old. We're looking to spend something in the range of £50k-£60k including kitting it out for bluewater sailing.

At the moment a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 from 1998-2002 seems to be holding top position on my wishlist.

So, any special recommendations or tips of things out of the ordinary we ought to look at, or just general advice for first time boat buyers.

Many thanks -- Erich < erich@mindyourhead.org >
Click to expand...

Think about going to France and looking for something that has just returned from an Atlantic circuit.

It will have the kit you need already fitted. They tend not to use Yachtworld so look for petites annonces voiliers.

Have you considered steel or ali?
 
Hi Erich

I think you are in for some re-alignment therapy.

Your plans seen to be a bit long on ideal and short on planning.
You may be the most organised person ever to start to plan a Atlantic crossing but it is going to take a major amount of time and money and time and money to take a tired charter boat and make it safe for ocean cruising.

Your time line seems very close to end date and you haven't even found the boat you want.
Sailing for a couple of weeks in the Med is very different from buying, maintaining, stocking and organising for a major undertaking such as the one you have briefly outlined.

Your budget for the boat you think you want also seems a little out of line with what is available, but if you can find and fit a boat to your requirements then very well done, but you seen to be underestimating the expenses that converting a 40-45ft charter boat to an ocean cruiser usually costs.

I want you succeed I really do but so many people have a big dream and then when it faces the reality of inception it fizzles and is never realized, so do lots of research on boats that are good for Ocean crossing and the preparations that others have made for the trips you have planned. There are plenty of books and articles on preparations and equipment for cruising.

The type of boats you are looking at to go across the Atlantic in are not the type of boat many live aboard cruisers would choose, but as these are the boats that the charter companies offer they are the boat that most people get to sail for their holidays, but this is an old issue with modern boat owners compared to the more traditional type of boats that many prefer for longer duration sailing and live aboard.
There are many types and styles of boat available so take a look at what is out there before you make any decisions.

My own choice of boat for long term live aboard was a 36ft cat and 8 years later we still live on her full time.

Mark
 
Just a few suggestions before you jump in to this project too deeply.....
It might be worthwhile chartering a yacht in the Caribbean first for a couple of holidays before committing yourself to sailing your own boat across - the BVI's are very popular (they could almost be described as a bit like a tropical Solent during our winter season), while the Grenadines are not quite as busy (but anchorages can still be crowded) but the sailing can be more challenging.
Look at the big players like Moorings and Sunsail, but also google TMM and Barefoot Yacht Charters.

Completing an Atlantic circuit in one year flat is do-able, especially on a 40'+ boat - Suhaili (google her) took less time to go around the world, albeit non stop rather slowly..... :)
But you will invariably find that you are rushing, and always keeping an eye on your next deadline - and one of the many nice aspects of cruising is that it is nice to get away from imperative deadlines, and have the freedom to be flexible.

You could also consider (in addition to chartering a bareboat at some stage out here in the Windies) going along on one of the yachts offering places in the ARC, to see what it is like - there will be a huge motley collection offering crew places on various terms.
If you are on a fairly tight schedule, the Tall Ships Youth Trust (www.tallships.org ) are sending two of their 72' Challenger yachts out here in the ARC in November, and they should be able to scoot across the pond at a rate of knots with time left over for exploring a few islands before hopping on the plane back to high latitudes.

Or you could even look at buying a yacht out here for a year, and then selling it at the end of your sabbatical - have a look at these brokers that sell (especially) former charter yachts. They are ideal for tropical inter-island sailing and living, but as has been mentioned above, will probably need extra kit before you would want to go across an ocean, as they are equipped very basically generally.
Brokers include :
http://www.tuimarinebrokerage.com/
http://www.bviyachtsales.com/
http://www2.yachtworld.com/bayisland/
And you could try doing an advanced search on www.yachtworld.com where you can specify location, type, age, size, cost etc, and see what literally 'turns up'.

BVI Yacht Sales had a 2000 Jeanneau SO 45.2 on their books for sale, but it is now sold - http://www.bviyachtsales.com/core/l...er&&hosturl=bviyachtsales&&ywo=bviyachtsales&
They were asking US$ 109k, and I wouldn't be surprised if she sold for perhaps $90-95k.
 
The bigger the boat the confier and faster and less rolly at anchor

If you plan to live on board doing annual atlantic circuits, the number of sailing days is small compared with the number of days at anchor. Hence the cat recommendations - but forget those cos you haven't got the money.

With the ARC... get the list of gear required on their checklist and actually cost it out. Not cheap. But good fun and helpful i supose. Mostly, it's a social thing.

A jeanneau 45 will probably be fine. Actually, loads of boats if not quite every single example will be fine.

You'll save money if you perhaps buy somewhere like gibraltar where unloved but sunshne-ready liveaboardable and vat-paid or vat-free boats lurk. I met one guy who made a nice living buying boats in the med and sailing them back to Lymington, doing a bit of varnishing etc on the way.

If you plan to be owner of the boat for a short while, it needs to be very saleable - a known brand of the type you suggest is good imho.

Target your buy price at 60% of "top asking" for that brand +year.
 
Essential criteria for buying an ex charter Troll 49 :
Little experience. A spread sheet. Another spread sheet for time--when we do it, +/- 2% for weather delays of course.
Cheap boat. But I want to sell it at the end.For reasonable profit. Buy in a surveyor, a chap to fettle it, some crew, and a er delivery crew?

All in all have you considered perhaps crewing on someone elses boat first to get more sea miles, and maybe renting for a month or two in the Caribbean. Probably be a lot more controllable too, and fun, all in all.
Good luck
 
Fitting out for blue water takes time and money

Good luck with your adventure, we did it in 2007-8 with our twin daughters, then aged 10, and had a ball.

Our experience of getting our boat sorted for an Atlantic circuit was that it took a considerable amount of time, money and energy.

It took me about six months of weekends to get Jigsaw ready for the Atlantic, setting up systems such as the windvane steering (Hydrovane), SSB/Iridium, extra water tanks, sail contols for twin headsails, preventers, replacing standing and running rigging and all in mast wiring, nav lights, ariels and radar, overhauling the engine and a few other bits that I have forgotten. I don't think I would buy an ex-charter yacht store it for a few months and then set off on a major voyage. I am not sure that an ex-charter boat would get insured for trans Atlantic without new standing rigging. It is much easier to fix the bits and pieces ashore in a yard rather than whilst hove to in Biscay. Chances are you will get away with it, but you may want to try the boat on a few longer passages of three or four days before setting off.

If anybody wants a boat back from an Atlantic Circuit Jigsaw may soon be for sale!! Having got back I am afraid that pottering around the East Coast at wekends does not quite do it for us anymore, and we cannot manage another long voyage until girls finish school.
 
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If I was going world sailing I would prefer steel or ali. Saw a 56 foot ali cutter on ebay recently already geared for voyaging. Only £65,000. Item 150485946601
 
Although the title is Which Boat for World Cruising Liveaboard the OP is really doing an Atlantic circuit as a couple without a lot of experience.

SOoo 56 foot of ketch might be a step too far, that is a lot of boat.

I still think France is the place to look, it is close to the UK so you can get it back easily if you don't want to leave from France. If you buy one in Greece that is a long trog across the med to Gib and out to the Canaries.

I liked the feeling of security you get in a steel boat when barreling downwind doing 6 knots plus at night in the trades

But if thier hearts are set on an AWB then what is the MINIMUM you HAVE to do to an ex charter AWB to prep it for a Transatlantic and what time budget would be reasonable.

Say new standing rigging get it done by a rigger say 2 days and £2-4k

If it has no autopilot then fit a CPT wheelpilot and carry a spare say 2 days and £3.5k OR buy a Hydrovane for the same money but fitting will be extra and less worry about lecky.

NOW battery charging Hmmm whats the minimum to cross the pond eh?? Just run the engine for a couple of hours every day. say 2 galls a day 30 days = 60 gallons.

I would want a backup of some description say a SH Honda suitcase genny. £1k or a Duogen ??

LIFERAFT yeah better have one I suppose. Rent for a year £400

EPIRB Yeah better have one of these too a years rental is about the same as buying a class 2 so £350

Looks like 7 to 10 K to me

What have I missed that you HAVE to HAVE ?
 
Hiya,

Done the Atlantic twice in a Sun Odessey 45, good choice. Don't think you have to spend masses getting it ready, most folk over do it.

So, agree TQA, doesn't need to be a Robison Crusoe list. Don't really need a generator either.

Hope this helps.
 
For the budget I'd suggest a Rival 38 if you can find one. Also Boatshed BVI might be worth a look, sometimes they have some real bargains. Good luck and enjoy...
 
Choice of boat

No one on this thread has yet been into load-carrying, and if you are living aboard you must be able to load the boat down without spoiling neither her sea-keeping ability nor her performance. Some years ago the RCC, whose members do a bit of sailing, published an analysis of the effect of overloading on a production boat. A live-aboard has to carry more gear than a week-ender, and on an ocean passage you need more again.
In Barbados, the best finishing point for an E-W crossing, we once measured nine boats which came in while we were anchored. What I was interested in was how they floated. All floated way below their marks, from 4" to 7".
A boat that is overloaded by 7" will perform like a pregnant elephant and be just as dangerous.
Consider: A Moody does not even have enough space to stow seaboots and oilskins.
Most standard production boats are built to minimum scantlings, selling price being the major design criterion. My own boat was a long keel steel boat that I designed and built myself. A close friend has a Colin Archer copy in steel. Beautiful!
The E-W passage is a doddle most of the time. After several crossings it is a bit of a bore trying to pick up the flying fish before the cat gets there first, every morning. But the w - E is a different matter. There the weather can be capricious
Somebody mentioned a Vancouver. Now these are well-built, well-designed boats. But too small can be a great handicap
Emjoy it, but try to manage a 2 year cruise at least.
 
Lots of great answers and they are right about the expense of converting to a cruising boat. We did that in 2002 and it cost £30,000, seemed to cost everyone the same whether the boat was a 34 Vancouver or a 53' Oyster. We have just returned from cruising and our boat is loaded with everything you could possibly want, sadly we are not quite ready to sell her but I am sure there are lots of similar boats you could look at.
 
hum so all the yachts that got to Barbados were fine albeit overloaded, yet no accidents, no problems but yet they're "dangerous". I wish this forum would stick to sensible advice rather than posturing.
 
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