Where to start… first dinghy

[vyv_cox]

Class racing is far more useful for a beginner than handicap. People learn by watching what others do and hopefully by being advised by the better amongst them. Being a member of a class fleet is the quickest way to learn. Pick from whatever class suits best in the club you have joined.

 

[dunedin]

Yes I agree re “me” or “us” - it might need to be “me” and “them” until I get some more experience.

Interesting re Opi/Topper. It would be great to hear your views on that.

The Oppie and Topper are great boats - for kids (Optimist) and bigger kids/ small adults (Topper).

The statement that “the whole Opi/Topper thing is a conveyor belt set up to feed children into the RYAs Olympic machine” is simply not true.
Yes a small number of sailors progress through these boats up to serious racing level. But MASSES more kids enjoy learning at club level in fleets of Oppies and / or Toppers. There is learning and fun to be had at all levels in these boats.
Many larger sailing clubs have fleets of boats able to be borrowed for use in their training programmes.
And whilst sailing with Mum might be nice, if there is an organised kids group then skippering your own Oppie with a group of similar aged kids is much more fun, and great for learning.

But I agree it is a tough decision on which boat, if there isn’t club boats available to borrow.

 

[Novice2024]

At f, 55kg and 5’4, I’m going to hazard a guess that the OP is the Mum.

Yes definitely mum - not an unusually small dad. Sorry should have been clearer. Hence the worry that many of these boats are not build for smaller adults… e.g. Enterprise as suggested above?

 

[Novice2024]

The Oppie and Topper are great boats - for kids (Optimist) and bigger kids/ small adults (Topper).

The statement that “the whole Opi/Topper thing is a conveyor belt set up to feed children into the RYAs Olympic machine” is simply not true.
Yes a small number of sailors progress through these boats up to serious racing level. But MASSES more kids enjoy learning at club level in fleets of Oppies and / or Toppers. There is learning and fun to be had at all levels in these boats.
Many larger sailing clubs have fleets of boats able to be borrowed for use in their training programmes.
And whilst sailing with Mum might be nice, if there is an organised kids group then skippering your own Oppie with a group of similar aged kids is much more fun, and great for learning.

But I agree it is a tough decision on which boat, if there isn’t club boats available to borrow.

Yes and club boats are very limited hence the pressure to get sorted.., given it’s so late the season is this a good time to buy? Or doesn’t really matter in terms of price / availability?

 

[Novice2024]

A Topper seems like an obvious (sensible) choice plus a larger one I can sail with / without kids. I am just struggling to get excited about a Topper…

 

[KevinV]

A Topper seems like an obvious (sensible) choice plus a larger one I can sail with / without kids. I am just struggling to get excited about a Topper…

You don't need to be excited about the Topper, that's for them to get excited about - can they try a few of the options at the club, then decide between themselves? You want them invested in it.

 

[oldbloke]

Theŕ are an infinite number of possibilities and combinations. Don't overthink it, its not a lifetime commitment. Ask the kids "Topper or Oppie?" and get on with it. Then worry about yourself (isn't that always the way for mothers?). How about offering yourself as a crew for the rest of the season?.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

A Topper seems like an obvious (sensible) choice plus a larger one I can sail with / without kids. I am just struggling to get excited about a Topper…

They can be fun given enough wind ....

 

[Novice2024]

Ok having done a bit more research on the club, I think this might be the right combo:
Year 1 / now:
- buy Oppie for 11yo - apparently all kids race them until 13/14 (assuming 11yo ok with it)
- poor neglected second child borrows club Oppie (for a while) to make sure they take to it
- buy Graduate for everyone which I can (just about manage to) sail alone

Roll forward 1-2 seasons:
- buy Topper for older child
- younger one gets passed down Opi

 

[Novice2024]

On another note I am surprised the cost of these second hand dinghies can be so little compared to the staggering cost of the kit..!

 

[dancrane]

I am just struggling to get excited about a Topper…

I hear that!

I had a Topper for years, starting in my early teens, and from the earliest days I always wanted something bigger and better. They're tough and safe, but curiously slow and unrewarding, and made constantly wet in any chop, by their low freeboard and convex deck.

A Laser is deservedly a much cooler boat to kids' eyes (despite being a much older design than it looks) and doesn't embarrass the adult sailor either. It only needs minimal maintenance and the choice of sail sizes makes it usable by a very broad range of crew weights and abilities. And for non-racing days it's perfectly possible for two smallish sailors to share a Laser (in fact they can have a whale of a time using their combined weight to sail using one of the bigger sails than they'd pick, alone).

The best advice is probably don't buy anything rare or heavily modified or in bizarre colours, because you'll likely want to change it quite soon for something you see while out there.
.

 

[dunedin]

I hear that!

I had a Topper for years, starting in my early teens, and from the earliest days I always wanted something bigger and better. They're tough and safe, but curiously slow and unrewarding, and made constantly wet in any chop, by their low freeboard and convex deck.

A Laser is deservedly a much cooler boat to kids' eyes (despite being a much older design than it looks) and doesn't embarrass the adult sailor either. It only needs minimal maintenance and the choice of sail sizes makes it usable by a very broad range of crew weights and abilities. And for non-racing days it's perfectly possible for two smallish sailors to share a Laser (in fact they can have a whale of a time using their combined weight to sail using one of the bigger sails than they'd pick, alone).

The best advice is probably don't buy anything rare or heavily modified or in bizarre colours, because you'll likely want to change it quite soon for something you see while out there.
.

But you miss the point entirely - the fun for kids in a Topper is sailing, and just generally playing around with, other kids in the Topper fleet.
The issue with the Laser (now ILCA) for kids is even with the small sail, the hull is still quite big and heavy (and can be tricky to right). Also ILCA tends to much more expensive, and being GRP more subject to bashes and damage in kids fleets that the tupperware Topper laughs off.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Couldn’t agree more with Vyv’s point about about joining a club with an active fleet. It’s just a superior experience compared with a club that’s gone fully handicap.

Just a thought, but what about a topper and a double hander that fits with the club? Seems like a flexible way to get the 3 of you involved.

Odd comments about the topper. It’s a great boat and yes very wet, as dinghy sailing generally is.

Also, don’t just settle on a club. A decent one will have a fleet of boats you can use, allowing you to practice and develop a sense of what’s going to work for you before buying into a class.

Sailing is brilliant. Good luck!

 

[Sea Change]

Graduate for everyone which I can (just about manage to) sail alone

Is your concern based on actually sailing a larger boat by yourself, or more about the launch and recovery of it?
Just thinking that if it's a busy club with fleets going out then surely there will be lots of other people around to help with hauling boats up the slipway.

I'm not much bigger than you (63kg) and I used to single-hand a Wayfarer all the time. Those boats are battleships compared to everything else mentioned in this thread.
My wife bought a Graduate to sail by herself, and it felt tiny!

 

[vyv_cox]

On another note I am surprised the cost of these second hand dinghies can be so little compared to the staggering cost of the kit..!

Indeed, they are remarkably cheap. My son recently bought a decent Mirror, in sailing condition, on a trailer, for £200.

 

[jwilson]

When I was teaching children to sail I preferred Toppers to Optimists: much more fun for them. I only put the very tiniest kids in Optimists, and even then sometimes put two very small kids together to get enough weight for a Topper. A Topper planes quite well if weight low, and that is when you get shrieks of excitement!

 

[doug748]

Yes definitely mum - not an unusually small dad. Sorry should have been clearer. Hence the worry that many of these boats are not build for smaller adults… e.g. Enterprise as suggested above?

Cheap and fun though and, with a Topper, covers the lot.

You don't need to be a monster to keep an Enterprise the right way up and the 11 year old will soon be a strapping teenager probably of towering dimensions

.

 

[dunedin]

...
You don't need to be a monster to keep an Enterprise the right way up and the 11 year old will soon be a strapping teenager probably of towering dimensions

.

Actually, based upon the OP's weight I would definitely AVOID an Enterprise.
The have quite a big rig and need a bit of weight to keep upright.
Ex-owner of 2 Enterprises raced as a lightweight in my teenage years- and wasnt just lack of technique as was club champion one year.

 

[vyv_cox]

Actually, based upon the OP's weight I would definitely AVOID an Enterprise.
The have quite a big rig and need a bit of weight to keep upright.
Ex-owner of 2 Enterprises raced as a lightweight in my teenage years- and wasnt just lack of technique as was club champion one year.

Although I had sailed earlier, our first boat when married was an Enterprise. As you say, quite a handful and not the perfect beginner's boat. A Graduate would be far more suitable for a lighter couple but only if there is a class of them at the club.

 

[Daydream believer]

I had a shearwater cat when I had kids.
My kids very soon dumped me and started playing with the other kids. So I had to buy them a cadet and they loved it. They joined in all the races and club racing weeks. I had to find a crew for my shearwater, or go wind surfing.
Graduates are great boats but be careful that the bloke advising you is not doing it because he has one. See what everyone else has first. Then decide. But a 2 handed boat for the kids keeps them. Happy. If it means they can join in with other club kids. They will soon out grow Oppies so I would not bother. If you have a 2 handed dinghy you can then get club members to crew you and become more involved. In social activities as you intermingle.
You can always take a child out when one throws a wobbly and does not want to play that day