When your sunny Greek charter goes wrong...

alexincornwall said:
I see this this amateur video is doing the WWW rounds. Some fairly shocking seamanship going on here but for all of their inexperience, I actually reckon they did alright!

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Certainly looks like an inexperienced crew on a charter with a more experienced skipper, but what do you see as “fairly shocking seamanship”?

True, they had too much sail up as the weather worsened, but many people get caught out by that. I won’t say that is “truly shocking”. They all (except the skipper) put life jackets on. The Genoa furler looks like it jammed so they couldn’t get it away any further and were relieved when it finally ripped. The skipper sensibly headed to the lee of the island and remained well out at sea. The radio procedure left a little to be desired, but then that was clearly one of the inexperienced crew told to send a pan pan by the skipper, and at least he managed to successfully broadcast his position without resorting to three words (sorry, wrong thread!).
 
lustyd said:
I don't know the area well enough to say these days but the area I sailed around Vounaki it was definitely a daily occurence due to katabatics. 10 miles seems far out though!
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While it is true that you get winds like that close to the mainland shore such as where you were in Vounaki. It is also true that you get a good afternoon wind across the region in the afternoon. That is part of what makes it a good place for easy going chartering and flotilla holidays.

However that is not what was shown in the video. That was the sudden, often out of nowhere localised storm, often a thunderstorm, such as that described in post#3. I sailed in that area for 10 years and only experienced one, also in the Corfu channel going north from Levkas to Gouvia. It was obvious well in advance so we were able to prepare. Interesting thing was that just before it hit we saw the seaplane that used to run there disappear through the top of the clouds and come out the other side making its turn into Gouvia. Reefed down with engine running to keep the head into the wind, the storm lasted for about 40 minutes chucking rain at us as well. Then we popped out of the other side into almost flat calm and sunshine.
 
bdh198 said:
Certainly looks like an inexperienced crew on a charter with a more experienced skipper, but what do you see as “fairly shocking seamanship”?

True, they had too much sail up as the weather worsened, but many people get caught out by that. I won’t say that is “truly shocking”. They all (except the skipper) put life jackets on. The Genoa furler looks like it jammed so they couldn’t get it away any further and were relieved when it finally ripped. The skipper sensibly headed to the lee of the island and remained well out at sea. The radio procedure left a little to be desired, but then that was clearly one of the inexperienced crew told to send a pan pan by the skipper, and at least he managed to successfully broadcast his position without resorting to three words (sorry, wrong thread!).
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+1
 
Couple of issues I've had with charter boats ....

Sometimes the furling line is not long enough to get it to a winch with the genny unfurled. In benign conditions you can pull it by hand until you get a decent length in, but when the wind gets up you have no mechanical advantage to get the reef started .... if running reefed in strong wind and the genoa furler gets away and completely unfurls, I'm not strong enough to pull the first few furls in alone.

The furling line jammer needs someone controlling it while reefing under load because it is not a clutch, they are often worn and can fail to bite, releasing the entire furling line if the rope slips - and then you're screwed if the loose line is around feet, hands or other appendages.

Once reefed, put a stop knot in the reefing line if it has to be left on the jammer alone - better to be left with a tight knot in the reefing line and less sail, than a fully unfurled genny in a gale.
 
Regarding Katabatics in the Ionian, a perfect example would be Kefalonia, anyone entering Agia Efimia late on a hot sunny day would know, you get hit with the wind if you are heading to Agia Ef from Fiskardo, as soon as you turn towards the harbour it hits you! but it only travels about 2 miles out, farther out its flat, after 7pm it drops altogether, totally different than a storm, and predictable.
 
I had some sympathy until the end with the stills of the crew looking 'yachtie'.

Something to tell the office about...'It was just like the Fastnet in 79, probably worse, luckily my Daykipper training kicked in,'
 
Asking for an inexperienced skipper! What should they have done differently? What would an experienced crew do?

If they had turned head to wind the boat wouldnt' have been over on it's ear. Would they not be able to drop the geneoa down the luff track and lash to the guard rails. If not should they have cut the sheets to ease the load earlier? Assuming harnesses were on board they should have used them, maybe they weren't so no one fancied going forward? Should they have raised a Pan Pan earlier or not at all? If they could have got the genny down would bear poles / engine still have got them into the lee of the island? Shut the Companion way hatch? Put the crew down below?

Thanks (the knowledge will be appreciated)

Ben
 
Sounded like the engine was running when he was inside getting lifejackets but they didn't turn into the wind. That would seem like a good idea
 
Been there. Done that. Blew up suddenly on an Ionian flotilla. Youngster down below getting frightened. Diverted to bomb-proof harbour / flotilla base and caught up with the rest of the flotilla next day. Youngster happy ... and went on to become a Senior Instructor.
 
I thought people went to the Aegean to get away from weather like that..... At least thats what the advertising would have us believe! I experienced a similar storm on my first visit to the Canaries. 1st day out skipper refused to sail - there's a storm coming in'. We lounged aorund rather fed up in normal blazing hot sunshine all day. It came in about 5.00pm - torrential rain, and wind to 70kts for about 2 hours. No more complaints about 'wasting a day'!
 
jaminb said:
Asking for an inexperienced skipper! What should they have done differently? What would an experienced crew do?

If they had turned head to wind the boat wouldnt' have been over on it's ear. Would they not be able to drop the geneoa down the luff track and lash to the guard rails. If not should they have cut the sheets to ease the load earlier? Assuming harnesses were on board they should have used them, maybe they weren't so no one fancied going forward? Should they have raised a Pan Pan earlier or not at all? If they could have got the genny down would bear poles / engine still have got them into the lee of the island? Shut the Companion way hatch? Put the crew down below?

Thanks (the knowledge will be appreciated)

Ben
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Turning the boat head to wind and motoring up wind to maintain course would put any crew sent to deal with the sail in a very dangerous position from the flogging headsail and sheets.

There’s no way the boat will sit head to wind on its own so you’ll be motoring upwind increasing the apparent wind which isn’t helpful.

Also with all that panic and chaos on board the chances of a rope going over the side and around the prop are high. Then they’ll really be in trouble.

I’d point the boat down wind, lower the apparent wind considerably and take the drama of thrashing sheets and sail away.

Then go up an have a look at the furling system. It’s only going to be something basic like loose coils jammed on the drum from unfurling sail without tension. Very unlikely the furler is actually broken.

If you’ve got a bit of main sail up that’ll also take some power out the head sail. I’d also drop the sail down wind behind mainsail if furling system can’t be fixed.

I only watched it once last night, looked like they held on with the headsail problem for too long hoping conditions would calm down, unfortunately they didn’t. Motoring upwind toward the initial destination with sail going ballistic huge mistake, not sure of area but unlikely there wasn’t a better port on a more favourable wind angle.

Probably all easier said than done without at least a decent helm that could steer the boat without gybing.
 
oldharry said:
I thought people went to the Aegean to get away from weather like that..... At least thats what the advertising would have us believe! I experienced a similar storm on my first visit to the Canaries. 1st day out skipper refused to sail - there's a storm coming in'. We lounged aorund rather fed up in normal blazing hot sunshine all day. It came in about 5.00pm - torrential rain, and wind to 70kts for about 2 hours. No more complaints about 'wasting a day'!
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In the Aegean, during late summer, the Etesian northerly winds, commonly known as "Meltemi" can blow for days, with force 8,9 and big seas; but they are predictable and not that bad if you are ready for it.
 
bdh198 said:
Certainly looks like an inexperienced crew on a charter with a more experienced skipper, but what do you see as “fairly shocking seamanship”?
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1) failure to suggest life jackets when it began to pipe up. This would have been my default reaction before anything else.

2) likewise, harnesses for all crew.

3) Inability to deal with the situation at hand. Given that they obviously managed to furl away part of the headsail, I'd bet it jammed through halyard wrap. I'd have whipped it all out and tried again and if that didn't work, dropped the halyard and stowed it away. I appreciate that an inexperienced crew would be reluctant to go on deck, but watching a sail tear itself to pieces wouldn't have been an option for me unless the boat was on the verge of being knocked down.

4) Inability to read a lat/long

5) Inability to transmit a pan pan.

Points 1, 2, 4 & 5 are covered at Day Skipper level.

I did conclude the original post by asserting that I thought they’d actually done pretty well.
 
Its easy to say I would have done this or they shouldn't have done that from the safety of dry land.
In my earlier post I described the scene when a sudden squal hit our 49 ft bav, with winds over 50 knts and huge waves and lighting hitting the sea around us into the mix.
I am an experienced sailer, but never experienced conditions like this.
I put the boat head to wind and waves but she wouldn't hold her course, I couldn't turn to run with the weather because land was just over a mile downwind, I got everyone down below, some of the charter were over 80 yo, and just lied a hull with the engine pushing gently out to sea.
It was uncomfortable but I knew we were safe.
Thank goodness it only lasted less than an hour. I don't know what I could have done differently.
I thought the guys did well in atrocious conditions
 
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xyachtdave said:
Turning the boat head to wind and motoring up wind to maintain course would put any crew sent to deal with the sail in a very dangerous position from the flogging headsail and sheets.

There’s no way the boat will sit head to wind on its own so you’ll be motoring upwind increasing the apparent wind which isn’t helpful.

Also with all that panic and chaos on board the chances of a rope going over the side and around the prop are high. Then they’ll really be in trouble.

I’d point the boat down wind, lower the apparent wind considerably and take the drama of thrashing sheets and sail away.

Then go up an have a look at the furling system. It’s only going to be something basic like loose coils jammed on the drum from unfurling sail without tension. Very unlikely the furler is actually broken.

If you’ve got a bit of main sail up that’ll also take some power out the head sail. I’d also drop the sail down wind behind mainsail if furling system can’t be fixed.

I only watched it once last night, looked like they held on with the headsail problem for too long hoping conditions would calm down, unfortunately they didn’t. Motoring upwind toward the initial destination with sail going ballistic huge mistake, not sure of area but unlikely there wasn’t a better port on a more favourable wind angle.

Probably all easier said than done without at least a decent helm that could steer the boat without gybing.
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The sea state isn't so bad at the time the reefing gets jammed. If they'd turned into the wind on the motor there was a chance they could have unfurled the sail and tried again.

If that didn't work I'd have locked the reefing line so it didn't suddenly unfurl, sheeted in the mostly reefed sail, asked someone to pass me a coat and sailed upwind keeping her pointing as close to the wind as possible until the front edge of the squall passed. It usually goes down to half the peak wind strength after a while.

Leaving the sail as it was had the boat pinning down at 45 degrees with ever bigger waves hitting them beam on. I guess he was at that point of sail as he was heading for shelter and got away with it.
 
I've never done a greek charter but from this can i assume those life jackets are what is usually provided? It looks like they are intended just for when people have been told to muster at the lifeboats on the titanic, not something to be worn at any normal times for unexpected events. I suppose people take their own self inflating ones if they like to wear them?
 
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