When you see a ship, never mind the IRPCS, just get out of the way

[Robin]

So what would you do in the following situation?

You are sailing north mid channel at 4 knots through the non TSS west bound shipping lane cutting through the lane about 10 to 20 degrees off a right angle because you want to end up at the Needles and not Poole or Weymouth. You have max daylight visibility range. Sea state moderate.

After a quiet period 4 AIS targets appear. Bearing at CPA indicates the first 3 ships will pass either side 10 to 20 minutes from now at ranges of less than 0.7nm. A 4th more distance ship is travelling 10 kts faster than the first 3 ships and time to CPA is 30 minutes.

Over the next 20 minutes the CPA of the 4th ship bounces around between 0.2nm and 0.1nm and the bearing@CPA indicates you will pass just ahead. By the time the first 3 ships have passed things are getting tight and you doubt the 4th ship has picked you up over the past 20 minutes because it has not nudged the heading to open up the CPA.

You are also concerned the 4th ship's crew is distracted by another sailing yacht 1/2 a mile south of you under spinnaker. It is 2pm BTS on a sunny day and you reason that from the ship's perspective you might be lost in the sparkle of reflected light off the sea surface on the ship's port side.

You left Cameret 29 hours previously and have singlehanded through the night. Your brain is a bit groggy and your 420 sq ft main sail is held out via a boom preventer set on a port tack to catch the fickle SW wind.

What now skipper? Demonstrate your faith in 100% adherence to ColRegs.

First and foremost since as you have said the visibility is good use your EYES and don't rely on an AIS computer game.

You are under sail so strictly are stand on vessel but don't go closer in front of a ship than you are happy with. The ship might well be happy with a smaller CPA than you (more stable platform) but that doesn't mean you should assume that, or even that they have seen you.

Now using MK1 eyeballs are you already directly in the path of the ship like head on, masts in line, or not yet there? Do you have time to harden up and increase speed under sail and also cross nearer to 90 degs farther ahead of the ship, even though that is a turn to port since you are still under sail? Could you use some engine on your current course to speed up the crossing? Both suggestions excluded immediately if it means crossing too close (your call how far) ahead of a ship. Otherwise gybe and go south out of the way, pass behind the ship or just heave to until the ship is clear, your preventer line WAS rigged for easy slipping wasn't it?

IRPCS do say as stand on vessel you should take action when it is apparent the other vessel isn't. At no times do IRPCS say stand still and get anihilated!

I don't see any conflict with IRPCS here, just a question of timing and which alternative option to take once you have decided action is required by you in order not to cross too close ahead.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Here lies the body of Darren Grey,
Who died defending his right of way.
He was in the right as he went along,
but he's just as dead as if he was wrong.

The last time this was discussed, a ships captain made a comment that they did not know what the hell yachts were going to do - some would stand on, some wouldn't. He wished that they would abide by the Col regs, and if stand on boat, then please stand on, and allow the give way ship the certainty of knowing that he should give way.

As others have said, abide by the rules, with some common sence attached and you shouldn't get to the situation of the rhyme above.

 

[Danny Jo]

But if you had applied the IRPCS - specifically Rule 19 (d)
"A vessel which detects by radar alone the presence of another vessel shall determine if a close-quarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists. If so, she shall take avoiding action in ample time, provided that when such action consists of an alteration of course, so far as possible the following shall be avoided:
(i) an alteration of course to port for a vessel forwards of the beam, other than for a vessel being overtaken.
(ii) an alteration of course towards a vessel abeam or abaft the beam."

you wouldn't have turned to port at all - I can't see a codicil about 19d not applying when there is soup in the cockpit.

Now you can argue that "radar" doesn't mean AIS, despite what those nice gents at NASA may say, but when the rules were writ AIS wasn't even in mind. Radio , direction and range certainly apply to both.

So I reckon that you determined the risk of a close-quarters situation developing, took avoiding action in plenty time, but because of your soup, chose to ignore (i).

Good point, but rule 19 is clearly headed "Conduct of vessels in restricted visibility". I can't remember at what distance we could see the superstructure of the ferries, but we were in sight of high ground on Anglesey approximately 12-14 miles away. While one could imagine a true zealot interpreting "out of sight over the horizon" as "restricted visibility", I don't think that interpretation is within the spirit of rule 19.

 

[awol]

That would have put you under the bows of ship no.2 that you had been crossing ahead by 0.6nm.

Have another try.

Keep adding information, I'll get there eventually. So, if I understand you, you are happy with a 6 cable clearance ahead of a ship with you doing 4kts. That means, depending on it's speed - say 15kts, if it doesn't change course, it missed you by 2.4 minutes and your cpa was 1.6 cables. You are a trusting soul!

 

[jonjo]

First and foremost since as you have said the visibility is good use your EYES and don't rely on an AIS computer game.

Without AIS I would have been oblivious to the developing close call situation with the 4th ship, that for the first 10 minutes of this scenario was out of visual range. I would instead have been fretting over the 1st three ships. AIS gave me the confidence to hold course and cross between the leading group of 3 ships.

You are under sail so strictly are stand on vessel but don't go closer in front of a ship than you are happy with.

I am not happy with crossing just 200 to 300 meters in front of the bow of a ship doing 24 knots. The AIS was predicting this outcome in 30 minutes and consistently so for the next 20 minutes.

The ship might well be happy with a smaller CPA than you (more stable platform)

My AIS experiences have taught me that ships either refuse to budge an inch or steer for clear round CPA fractions e.g. 0.5, 0.7 and 1.2nm seems to be another favoured passing distance.

Do you have time to harden up and increase speed under sail and also cross nearer to 90 degs farther ahead of the ship, even though that is a turn to port since you are still under sail?

I considered that but with 2 ships of the leading pack passing under a mile north of me, this did not feel like an option for the first 15 minutes.

Otherwise gybe and go south out of the way, pass behind the ship

Not an option for the first 15 to 20 minutes because that would have put me into another uncomfortable close crossing ahead of the southerly west bound ship doing 15 knots.

or just heave to until the ship is clear

No, that optioned equated to being run down by the southern ship of the leading pack.

your preventer line WAS rigged for easy slipping wasn't it?

Oh yes, unlike some of the crackpot boom preventer schemes recommended here, mine was by the book, boom end to bow block back to the aft mooring cleat.

IRPCS do say as stand on vessel you should take action when it is apparent the other vessel isn't.

The 4th ship had 20 minutes to open up the CPA but did not, so I assumed watch keeping was deficient or they were focussed on overtaking the 3 ships ahead.

At no times do IRPCS say stand still and get anihilated!

No, I wanted to act but felt I was in the middle of a complex chess game and the big boys had called check mate on me. By the time a collision avoidance became available I had to do something that will have JM tut tutting.

I'll give JM another few hours to respond then I will describe the following stressful 10 minutes.

 

[lw395]

Pride of...

I have to say that, following a 'bridge visit' on a recent trip to St Malo, I have enhanced confidence in the abilities of the master of that vessel and his highly-trained crew. Beyond their use of S- and X-band radars, they also have an RTIR capability, make use of up to 7 trained operators and visual observers in reduced visibility and, from listening to the master's comments on how he deploys and uses those 'sensors', are probably about the least likely to 'connect' with a yacht.

Oh, and BTW, also logs in here from time to time.

Far more worrying are the fast 'reefers' and Handymax bulkers charging along the Channel at over 20kts, with gey few on watch and a far lesser capacity to avoid you and me.

I think your near-namesake ferry was also well equipped when the Ouzo went missing.

 

[Danny Jo]

What question did this poll answer?

As so often happens, this poll seems to have answered an unintended question.

My conclusion is that nearly two thirds of respondents take steps to avoid situations which make their boat the stand-on vessel to big ship.

The strategm makes sense to me only in harbours and shallow water - where you can lurk in places not accessible to big ships - or for fast motor boats, but only occasionally does it make sense for yachts in open water.

AIS complicates the issue, so let me ask: without AIS or radar, how do you determine whether you and the ship you can see might reach a position which makes you the stand on vessel before that occurs? You cannot use the constant bearing criterion, because by IRPCS you have already become the stand on vessel. So what else is there, if not this: it's getting closer, is not a vessel engaged in fishing (etc, etc) and on a bearing anywhere in an arc from your port bow, through port to 22.5 degrees abaft your starboard beam?

The question I had in mind was: do you attempt to "keep out of the way" even if your action puts you in breach of IRPCS? I suspect that many of those agreeing with the statement in the original post would answer "no" to this question. But I wonder.

Never mind the odd IRPCS denier, what is worries me more is the apparently commonly-held belief that by "keeping out of the way" you can both dispense with detailed knowledge of IRPCS and avoid situations which make you the stand on vessel.

 

[jonjo]

So, if I understand you, you are happy with a 6 cable clearance ahead of a ship with you doing 4kts. That means, depending on it's speed - say 15kts, if it doesn't change course, it missed you by 2.4 minutes and your cpa was 1.6 cables. You are a trusting soul!

Sorry my fuzzy language, not sure what the bow crossing distance was, the CPA was 0.6 nm as the ship passed astern. The ship was doing about 17knots I recall. The point I am trying to highlight is that by the time the situation with the stubborn 4th ship was clear I was boxed in.

The merchant mariners here will be displeased with the final outcome, but having rerun the situation in my mind I don't think better options were available.

 

[jonjo]

I think your near-namesake ferry was also well equipped when the Ouzo went missing.

But the mind set of the crew is completely different. A passenger ferry fast cat crossing the Channel in bad visibility is run with the same intensity as a jumbo jet circling London waiting for a landing slot at Heathrow. On the Newheven/Dieppe cat it was possible to watch the crew at work on the bridge when the blinds were open, they were conscientious pros.

In complete contrast on the PoB we had an undermanned bridge headed by some end of career odd jobbing temp, in laid back ocean cruising mode.

 

[flyingscampi]

If his bio is up to date he sails a Centaur on Lake Windermere and I don't suppose meets many supertankers?

From a previous conversation, I believe that John Morris UK serves on a RN warship.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

From a previous conversation, I believe that John Morris UK serves on a RN warship.

I think you are right, but we were discussing Aquaplane's comments and sailing location at the time.

 

[Robin]

Without AIS I would have been oblivious to the developing close call situation with the 4th ship, that for the first 10 minutes of this scenario was out of visual range. I would instead have been fretting over the 1st three ships. AIS gave me the confidence to hold course and cross between the leading group of 3 ships.


I am not happy with crossing just 200 to 300 meters in front of the bow of a ship doing 24 knots. The AIS was predicting this outcome in 30 minutes and consistently so for the next 20 minutes.



My AIS experiences have taught me that ships either refuse to budge an inch or steer for clear round CPA fractions e.g. 0.5, 0.7 and 1.2nm seems to be another favoured passing distance.


I considered that but with 2 ships of the leading pack passing under a mile north of me, this did not feel like an option for the first 15 minutes.



Not an option for the first 15 to 20 minutes because that would have put me into another uncomfortable close crossing ahead of the southerly west bound ship doing 15 knots.


No, that optioned equated to being run down by the southern ship of the leading pack.



Oh yes, unlike some of the crackpot boom preventer schemes recommended here, mine was by the book, boom end to bow block back to the aft mooring cleat.


The 4th ship had 20 minutes to open up the CPA but did not, so I assumed watch keeping was deficient or they were focussed on overtaking the 3 ships ahead.


No, I wanted to act but felt I was in the middle of a complex chess game and the big boys had called check mate on me. By the time a collision avoidance became available I had to do something that will have JM tut tutting.

I'll give JM another few hours to respond then I will describe the following stressful 10 minutes.

OK, I don't want to get bogged down into mind boggling detail as it is difficult to visualise unless you are actually there and can see the story unfolding.

As a general comment however, it seems that as a result of having AIS you are trying to find a solution that fits ALL the contacts in one go. That is rarely possible in practice in a busy area like the Channel 'lanes' where often the ships are nose to tail visually in two dimensions but even worse are spread across around 5mls of 'lane' width in the 3rd dimension. My tactics are to identify which contact is first on the list and concentrate on that whilst keeping a watchful eye on the next and the next. Very often it is necessary to adopt a different plan for ship #2 and again for numbers 3 and 4. We too have been in situations where we have been 'boxed in' having succesfully dealt with the first problem vessel but every time it has resolved itself by dealing with each in turn using IRPCS, albeit with considerable thought to the consequent effect on the next one oin line!

Some (many if the poll result rings true) would take flight it seems very early and I suspect on many occasions might wish they had taken a ferry!

Another general point, and without getting out pen and paper is that straight CPA figures are not the whole story by far. You might well have a CPA of 0.2nm as a ship that you passed ahead of crosses your track astern of you but actually when it was bows on masts in line was still 0.75nm away or more.

Also a general point, something which in your scenario you said was a mile north of you is not a problem because you couldn't hit that one if you tried at yacht speeds! Again comes down to identifying the problem ones and ignoring the others.

BTW I have met JM and know he is still serving RN as well as being a very experienced and competent yottie, as in YM Ocean Examiner even I believe....

 

[Robin]

From a previous conversation, I believe that John Morris UK serves on a RN warship.

You are quite correct, but he (John, serving RN and RYA Ocean Examiner) was referring to another post by Aquaplane and it is he that sails a Centaur on Windermere, I merely answered J-Ms question but this forum format makes things confused!

 

[Refueler]

As a general comment however, it seems that as a result of having AIS you are trying to find a solution that fits ALL the contacts in one go. That is rarely possible in practice in a busy area like the Channel 'lanes' where often the ships are nose to tail visually in two dimensions but even worse are spread across around 5mls of 'lane' width in the 3rd dimension. My tactics are to identify which contact is first on the list and concentrate on that whilst keeping a watchful eye on the next and the next. Very often it is necessary to adopt a different plan for ship #2 and again for numbers 3 and 4. We too have been in situations where we have been 'boxed in' having succesfully dealt with the first problem vessel but every time it has resolved itself by dealing with each in turn using IRPCS, albeit with considerable thought to the consequent effect on the next one oin line!

Standard practice on Merch ships in my day ... get a load of vessels appear ahead ... switch radar down to a useable as they come collision avoidance mode ... treat each target as you get to it ... individually, visually and also electronically. It's no good trying to construct a compromise situation to suit all out there ahead of you - you'd end up in the looney bin. In fact in reasonable viz. - you work looking out the window and just checking on general situation via radar ...

As a yachtie - I can understand also that when in a shipping area - you may not be aware of the ships actions to avoid the ship he has near him - it may be further away from him than you - but it's moving faster and is more risk to him in shorter time than you. He has you in mind, but needs to act as vessels come. In shipping lanes - of course it becomes more organised - except for the dear old fishing boats, ferries and others that cross / wander about ! each keeping to IRPCS ... but on a yacht at sea-level and extremely vulnerable - can be nerve-wrackingly intense !

Just a point ..

 

[john_morris_uk]

Gotcha, John !!

Its a while since I sailed on Lake Windamere, but if I recall correctly, local byelaws indicate that IRPCS apply as required etc.

Don't understand the gotcha bit...

 

[aquaplane]

Its a while since I sailed on Lake Windamere, but if I recall correctly, local byelaws indicate that IRPCS apply as required etc.

Don't understand the gotcha bit...

The byelaws are essentially the IRPCS, bits about minesweepers and extreemly large vessels are left out, but rowing boats are covered. If you come to sail on Windermere and apply colregs you won't go far wrong.

I've found that keeping a good lookout and avoiding racing fleets and ferries means that collision courses can be avoided early. I do know the rules, but you can't assume that only the day hire boats don't.

 

[Genoa]

As a general comment however, it seems that as a result of having AIS you are trying to find a solution that fits ALL the contacts in one go. That is rarely possible in practice in a busy area like the Channel 'lanes' where often the ships are nose to tail visually in two dimensions but even worse are spread across around 5mls of 'lane' width in the 3rd dimension. My tactics are to identify which contact is first on the list and concentrate on that whilst keeping a watchful eye on the next and the next. Very often it is necessary to adopt a different plan for ship #2 and again for numbers 3 and 4. We too have been in situations where we have been 'boxed in' having succesfully dealt with the first problem vessel but every time it has resolved itself by dealing with each in turn using IRPCS, albeit with considerable thought to the consequent effect on the next one oin line!
....

Using AIS does though help in these situations identify which order to handle them in. On a previous trip the ones you dont see behind the one you do, is often the trouble maker. AIS makes you aware that even in the shipping lanes there are fast and slow moving, and if you get the angles & speeds right/wrong you don't see the problem til you think you are out of what you perceived the danger to be. If I'd just done the bearing on the ship I could see, I'd have crossed its bow with ~ .75nm clearance. However, when I got to about 1 mile I would have seen a smaller faster freighter over taking him that I would have then had to take drastic action to slip behind (IRPCS say vessel in the lanes has rights over those crossing?)
With AIS, I decided to take an easier option and go behind both, which simply meant sheeting in, rather than having to tack, which I'd have to do if I delayed the decision.

So, like all things no rights and wrongs, just use the available information sources to make a decision, and always have a plan B.

Incidentally - I still think warships who are exercising should give as an AIS burst. - They are the most unpredictable vessels around and are quite intimidating in their manouvres, so a little bit of forwarning would help interpret their actions.

 

[john_morris_uk]

So what would you do in the following situation?

You are sailing north mid channel at 4 knots through the non TSS west bound shipping lane cutting through the lane about 10 to 20 degrees off a right angle because you want to end up at the Needles and not Poole or Weymouth. You have max daylight visibility range. Sea state moderate.

After a quiet period 4 AIS targets appear. Bearing at CPA indicates the first 3 ships will pass either side 10 to 20 minutes from now at ranges of less than 0.7nm. A 4th more distance ship is travelling 10 kts faster than the first 3 ships and time to CPA is 30 minutes.

Over the next 20 minutes the CPA of the 4th ship bounces around between 0.2nm and 0.1nm and the bearing@CPA indicates you will pass just ahead. By the time the first 3 ships have passed things are getting tight and you doubt the 4th ship has picked you up over the past 20 minutes because it has not nudged the heading to open up the CPA.

You are also concerned the 4th ship's crew is distracted by another sailing yacht 1/2 a mile south of you under spinnaker. It is 2pm BTS on a sunny day and you reason that from the ship's perspective you might be lost in the sparkle of reflected light off the sea surface on the ship's port side.

You left Cameret 29 hours previously and have singlehanded through the night. Your brain is a bit groggy and your 420 sq ft main sail is held out via a boom preventer set on a port tack to catch the fickle SW wind.

What now skipper? Demonstrate your faith in 100% adherence to ColRegs.

Sorry that I couldn't reply earlier - I have been driving round the country. (Now stuck in Gosport for the night if anyone wants a beer)

There seems to be a serious gulf between what I mean by 'apply the IRPCS' and what others seem to think it means. In my mind, apply the IRPCS does not mean sailing blindly on in the hope that a ship is going to alter course at the last minute and avoid a collision. It does mean standing on with caution if you are the stand on vessel, but taking avoiding action in good time if you believe a close quarters situation is developing.

In the situation that you describe, there are various possible options.

I am not generally in favour of using the VHF to call ships and ask their intentions, but AIS does seem allow you to call a ship by name. The problem is that when you talk to the OOW you are never absolutely sure that he know which yacht he is talking to. You can describe yourself, ".. the yacht with white sails on your starboard bow..." but its very easy to be confused and find yourself using valuable time that you could be assessing the situation and if necessary taking avoiding action. However, calling the ship that is a threat to you might just be an option to be considered.

AIS is not the only means of assessing risk of collision. Everyone should carry a hand bearing compass or a means of taking bearings of other ships and objects. Get the eyes working and assess what is happening. Take the ships one at a time. They are doing the same thing and are often waiting to clear one vessel before altering to clear you.

So when faced with a procession of ships and uncertainty as to whether you have been seen, and having taken bearings and monitored and then being faced with evidence that a close quarters situation might develop with one or more, I suggest that you do what the IRPCS says. Make a large alteration of course and/or speed. In such situations I have reversed course for a few minutes to allow the ships past; started the engine to make sure that I passed well ahead of a ship that I might have passed rather too close ahead of otherwise, tacked or hardened up, hove to, etc etc.

The rules clearly state that passing close ahead of another vessel should be avoided.

Your tiredness and rig and your seamanship are another matter, and shouldn't have much bearing on what happens. Some might argue that collision avoidance should be second nature and so well practiced so that when you are tired you still make the right decisions. I am not sure that this is easy to achieve for many yachtsmen, but the fear of collision is a good incentive to wake up... Being tired should make you double check all your calculations and bearings.

I should add that I also think Robin and others have already offered good advice... and interpretations of what might be done in the situation you have described.

 

[john_morris_uk]

As so often happens, this poll seems to have answered an unintended question.

My conclusion is that nearly two thirds of respondents take steps to avoid situations which make their boat the stand-on vessel to big ship.

The strategm makes sense to me only in harbours and shallow water - where you can lurk in places not accessible to big ships - or for fast motor boats, but only occasionally does it make sense for yachts in open water.

AIS complicates the issue, so let me ask: without AIS or radar, how do you determine whether you and the ship you can see might reach a position which makes you the stand on vessel before that occurs? You cannot use the constant bearing criterion, because by IRPCS you have already become the stand on vessel. So what else is there, if not this: it's getting closer, is not a vessel engaged in fishing (etc, etc) and on a bearing anywhere in an arc from your port bow, through port to 22.5 degrees abaft your starboard beam?

The question I had in mind was: do you attempt to "keep out of the way" even if your action puts you in breach of IRPCS? I suspect that many of those agreeing with the statement in the original post would answer "no" to this question. But I wonder.

Never mind the odd IRPCS denier, what is worries me more is the apparently commonly-held belief that by "keeping out of the way" you can both dispense with detailed knowledge of IRPCS and avoid situations which make you the stand on vessel.

Sums up my feelings and thoughts pretty well.

 

[jonjo]

In my mind, apply the IRPCS does not mean sailing blindly on in the hope that a ship is going to alter course at the last minute and avoid a collision. It does mean standing on with caution if you are the stand on vessel, but taking avoiding action in good time if you believe a close quarters situation is developing.

I think the quote sums up the problem. Everyone distrusts the knowledge or ability of others while trying to interpret the vague good intent of RYA tuition. The surprisingly large "always get out of the way" contingent is looked down on by the old hands and Merchant Navy. They in turn don't trust the big ships to spot them. Any cross channel sailor will have overheard on the VHF the intership disputes when foreign captains with poor command of the english language trade different interpretations of ColRegs. Not much incentive here for a yachtsman to call up a big ships mid channel, maybe you have better luck with a 4.5 gun mounted on the foredeck.

Anyhow here is what happened in the following 10 minutes of my cross channel scenario.

Once the leading group of 3 ships had passed I decided to leg it quickly north with a 30 degree turn to port. A better wind angle plus 2200rpm gave me 7 knots and raised the CPA to 0.8 of a mile briefly. Looking behind I was now more concerned for the fate of the yacht that was trailing me, then things got nasty.

The merchant ship heeled to port and started coming at me again! A quick trip to the chart table confirmed the CPA was back down to not a lot, so I gunned the engine to 2800. At which point every thing happening quickly, the ship backed out of the sharp turn a touch and slid between me and the other yacht.

My assumption is that they belatedly saw the other yacht to port standing on towards their bow, they put in an emergency turn to starboard, then moments later they picked up me fine on the starboard bow so they split the difference.

I don't know what the moral of the story is, but I do know I would have been jinking all over the place like a headless chicken without AIS.