Danny Jo
Well-Known Member
This strategm, recommended by a number of posters on this forum, is a source of continuing fascination to me. I won't say more, other than to wonder how many subscribe to it.
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When you see a ship, never mind the IRPCS, just get out of the way
- Thread starter Danny Jo
- Start date
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Those that do clearly don't sail in congested waters - they would never get out of harbour. 
Danny Jo
Well-Known Member
If it's not already clear, voting is secret.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I was thinking.Those that do clearly don't sail in congested waters - they would never get out of harbour.
If they haven't got the confidence to apply regulations AND use common sense, best they do stay at home anyway.
Searush
Well-Known Member
There are many cruising areas where ships are rare. There is a TSS near Hollyhead, but the most common ships seen are the Irish Ferries. In general I make sure I don't get in their way, pass astern & make it ckear with an early course change if one is required.
Clearly it is a different matter in narrow channels, but it isn't any problem for me to sail outside the channel - I only draw 3'10" ish. For other leisure craft, I also tend to "avoid being a nuisance" if I can.
In general, if you are not close, there is no collision risk & Colregs have little relevance. QED
Clearly it is a different matter in narrow channels, but it isn't any problem for me to sail outside the channel - I only draw 3'10" ish. For other leisure craft, I also tend to "avoid being a nuisance" if I can.
In general, if you are not close, there is no collision risk & Colregs have little relevance. QED
westernman
Well-Known Member
Wow! A sensible pragmatic answer and ColRegs both in the same post.
That must be a first.
I try not to inconvenience commercial shipping or fishing boats and generally that means I hold my course unless early appraisal means I can get out of the way without causing confusion.
In the Solent this means an eye ball assessment combined with local knowledge of where the big ships or ferries make their turns. Out in the Channel when mixing it with the full speed big stuff, AIS now allows me to make much smarter ColReg decisions, in fact I rarely alter course these days.
This season I have only made two critical passing decisions both based on AIS. In one case I had 3 ships close by passing both sides of me as I crossed the shipping lanes. These ships boxed me in and yet during a 30 minute period I had a 4th more distant faster ship bearing down on me showing a CPA between 0.0 and 0.2 miles. Eventually I gunned it under engine.
The second event was in fog north of Guernsey. I heard the Condor ferry powering up northwards at the top of the Little Russel. AIS showed the thundering beast heading towards me at 35 knots and a CPA fluctuating under 0.2 NM. So for the first time in my sailing career I called up another ship and asked the ferry on VHF if he had me on radar. Two or 3 minutes later the Condor thundered out of the mist at a 1/2 a mile CPA.
In the Solent this means an eye ball assessment combined with local knowledge of where the big ships or ferries make their turns. Out in the Channel when mixing it with the full speed big stuff, AIS now allows me to make much smarter ColReg decisions, in fact I rarely alter course these days.
This season I have only made two critical passing decisions both based on AIS. In one case I had 3 ships close by passing both sides of me as I crossed the shipping lanes. These ships boxed me in and yet during a 30 minute period I had a 4th more distant faster ship bearing down on me showing a CPA between 0.0 and 0.2 miles. Eventually I gunned it under engine.
The second event was in fog north of Guernsey. I heard the Condor ferry powering up northwards at the top of the Little Russel. AIS showed the thundering beast heading towards me at 35 knots and a CPA fluctuating under 0.2 NM. So for the first time in my sailing career I called up another ship and asked the ferry on VHF if he had me on radar. Two or 3 minutes later the Condor thundered out of the mist at a 1/2 a mile CPA.
bilbobaggins
N/A
I have to say that, following a 'bridge visit' on a recent trip to St Malo, I have enhanced confidence in the abilities of the master of that vessel and his highly-trained crew. Beyond their use of S- and X-band radars, they also have an RTIR capability, make use of up to 7 trained operators and visual observers in reduced visibility and, from listening to the master's comments on how he deploys and uses those 'sensors', are probably about the least likely to 'connect' with a yacht.
Oh, and BTW, also logs in here from time to time.
Far more worrying are the fast 'reefers' and Handymax bulkers charging along the Channel at over 20kts, with gey few on watch and a far lesser capacity to avoid you and me.
Oh, and BTW, also logs in here from time to time.
Far more worrying are the fast 'reefers' and Handymax bulkers charging along the Channel at over 20kts, with gey few on watch and a far lesser capacity to avoid you and me.
ytd
Well-Known Member
I had my closet call when I tried to get out of the way of a freighter in a narrow channel. We were both in the centre of the channel and I knew there was shallow water to port so I headed to port so that he would not have to alter course. Meanwhile the freighter was intent on passing port to port so he headed to that side of the channel as well - at 15 knots. We were still on a collision course. Realising he wouldn't have time to change direction and miss me I turned to starboard, put the motor on flat and hoped. He passed close enough to yell at me from the docking bridge. From then on I have always stood on or headed to starboard.
mollyoxford
Well-Known Member
oh dear, just reading those terms gives me flashbacks to my last contract... (IT Dev at a shipbrokers)
smeaks
Well-Known Member
Running my marine drain pipe delivery service here off the coast of Somarlia larger vessels usually make definite course changes to avoid me.... I cant work out why....
DJE
Well-Known Member
Give us a clue, something about Infra Red? or something organised by ISC? I googled it but I'm still none the wiser.
Robin
Well-Known Member
RTIR?? Round The Island Race?? As in very large numbers of small boats to be avoided by ferry?
alan17
Well-Known Member
jonjo;2265523). AIS showed the thundering beast heading towards me at 35 knots and a CPA fluctuating under 0.2 NM. So for the first time in my sailing career I called up another ship and asked the ferry on VHF if he had me on radar. Two or 3 minutes later the Condor thundered out of the mist at a 1/2 a mile CPA.[/QUOTE said:
Refueler
Well-Known Member
COLREGs only apply when vessels approach each other and risk of collision may exist. You can be in sight of one another and Colregs need not be applied if courses etc. are suitable.
Any change of course or speed should be bold and obvious and eraly enough to be clear on intention.
I answered generally with reservation, as a life-long yachtie and ex serving Merchant Navy Officer.
To L'Escargot about ...
Having boated since early childhood in Solent and similar waters ... I think that a silly statement. I have also brough large and small ships into Solent ... and generally appreciated yachts who kept clear ... and did not appreciate the idiots who applied Steam gives way to Sail when I have a draft of xx mtrs !
Any change of course or speed should be bold and obvious and eraly enough to be clear on intention.
I answered generally with reservation, as a life-long yachtie and ex serving Merchant Navy Officer.
To L'Escargot about ...
.... I cannot disagree more than politely say "Rubbish" !
Having boated since early childhood in Solent and similar waters ... I think that a silly statement. I have also brough large and small ships into Solent ... and generally appreciated yachts who kept clear ... and did not appreciate the idiots who applied Steam gives way to Sail when I have a draft of xx mtrs !
bilbobaggins
N/A
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
As I agreed his post and he is not around right now, let me explain.
The original title of the thread is "When you see a ship, never mind the IRPCS, just get out of the way" Of course common sense says you don't use the "power gives way to sail" motto all the time, esp crossing the channel as Bilbo says. Conversely it is not always necessary to alter course just because a ship is in sight. This in itself can cause further problems, such as getting into the path of another vessel.
The Snails point is that sailors in busy waters such as the Solent, Thames estuary, etc are bound to encounter ships in close quarters, and one has to act accordingly.
Thinking things through and making decisions to stand on or alter course, rather than just turn and running, is good skippering IMVHO.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
A pretty comprehensive response. I would just add that at no time have I suggested applying "steam gives way to sail" to large vessels. But I would say that anyone who subscribes to a practice that includes "...never mind the IRPCS..." is a fool.
If you encounter any ferries or large ships in the entrance to any Solent harbours, I am sure the masters would prefer your actions to be predictable and in accordance with the rules rather than some random action of your own choice which I am sure they would consider "rubbish".
Refueler
Well-Known Member
My point ref. the 'snails' reply - is based on both sides being daft !
Not only the 'get out of the way at all times' but also the implied 'IRPCS at all times' of 'snails' post.
I appreciate the intent was probably not to give that impression, but 'snails' post certainly gave me that impression.
I agree that in most circumstances that following the sensible IRPCS is the way, but there are times that prudent seamanship of bold and visible action on part of yachtie is preferred option.
It's like the example I gave many moons ago when asked by DTI examiner for one of my Merch Tickets ....
You are steaming along in clear waters, you observe a tug and tow approaching at distance port to stbd ... he is not showing any special signals to indicate difficulty to manoeuvre etc. What do you do ?
I answered that I would take compass bearings and determine if risk of collision exists. I would monitor the situation closely.
Given that he is not showing restricted ability signals, it is his to alter course and pass down my port side. But in respect of prudent seamanship, it is far easier for me to alter and not impede a tug and tow - by bold and obvious action to allow him to continue on. Making appropriate sound signal also.
the examiner praised me for giving up my position of stand-on vessel to allow the tug and tow to proceed.
But of course on these forums - I would have been failed
.... despite fact that DTI granted my ticket and were very hapy with the answer.
Not only the 'get out of the way at all times' but also the implied 'IRPCS at all times' of 'snails' post.
I appreciate the intent was probably not to give that impression, but 'snails' post certainly gave me that impression.
I agree that in most circumstances that following the sensible IRPCS is the way, but there are times that prudent seamanship of bold and visible action on part of yachtie is preferred option.
It's like the example I gave many moons ago when asked by DTI examiner for one of my Merch Tickets ....
You are steaming along in clear waters, you observe a tug and tow approaching at distance port to stbd ... he is not showing any special signals to indicate difficulty to manoeuvre etc. What do you do ?
I answered that I would take compass bearings and determine if risk of collision exists. I would monitor the situation closely.
Given that he is not showing restricted ability signals, it is his to alter course and pass down my port side. But in respect of prudent seamanship, it is far easier for me to alter and not impede a tug and tow - by bold and obvious action to allow him to continue on. Making appropriate sound signal also.
the examiner praised me for giving up my position of stand-on vessel to allow the tug and tow to proceed.
But of course on these forums - I would have been failed
.... despite fact that DTI granted my ticket and were very hapy with the answer.
flyingscampi
Well-Known Member
Common sense
You've applied common sense and courtesy to a set of defined rules, works every time!
My point ref. the 'snails' reply - is based on both sides being daft !
Not only the 'get out of the way at all times' but also the implied 'IRPCS at all times' of 'snails' post.
I appreciate the intent was probably not to give that impression, but 'snails' post certainly gave me that impression.
I agree that in most circumstances that following the sensible IRPCS is the way, but there are times that prudent seamanship of bold and visible action on part of yachtie is preferred option.
It's like the example I gave many moons ago when asked by DTI examiner for one of my Merch Tickets ....
You are steaming along in clear waters, you observe a tug and tow approaching at distance port to stbd ... he is not showing any special signals to indicate difficulty to manoeuvre etc. What do you do ?
I answered that I would take compass bearings and determine if risk of collision exists. I would monitor the situation closely.
Given that he is not showing restricted ability signals, it is his to alter course and pass down my port side. But in respect of prudent seamanship, it is far easier for me to alter and not impede a tug and tow - by bold and obvious action to allow him to continue on. Making appropriate sound signal also.
the examiner praised me for giving up my position of stand-on vessel to allow the tug and tow to proceed.
But of course on these forums - I would have been failed
You've applied common sense and courtesy to a set of defined rules, works every time!