When do you refuse to sail?

[sighmoon]

An opportunity to post this again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07CS5_Vrub4
The camera makes the waves look smaller, honest. Some of them seemed about the size of a three storey building at the time.

Note the washboards being out, we put them in when we put the camera away. Nobody hurt, and no breakages (though a couple of things tipped out). Lucky to get away with it though, and I'd be reluctant to venture oout in anything like it again. It wouldn't have taken much to go wrong for us to have been in serious difficulties.

In lesser conditions, I'd see how the crew were feeling - if anybody is feeling queasy or scared, it's time to head back in.

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

GP14 rail under water for any time ...boat full of water .... sunk

He did his best

 

[Sgeir]

An opportunity to post this again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07CS5_Vrub4

Nice vid. I should know the music, but forget (is this the start....?) - Pinetop Smith's BW, or Albert Ammons, or Pete Johnson..........?

 

[haydude]

It isn't dangerous, it may be just expensive!

I sailed in havy seas and bad weather several times, and never I was afraid for myself or my crew or passengers.

However every time I wished I was sailing on someone-else's yacht thinking only at the battering my boat was getting and how much I shortened the life of hull, sails and other equipment, whilst having to pick up the bill for some minor but expensive sails repairs (re-stitching of weathered sacrificial strips was the norm ...).

For this reason I am now a fair weather sailor when it is down to using my yacht, although happy to join other boats as crew.

 

[shaunksb]

.

The camera makes the waves look smaller, honest.

It does but that still looks like quite a swell.


.

 

[KellysEye]

>I think that if you have to ask that sort of question on an internet forum you need to examine your own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

I think it's fair question and the responses have been interesting probably because folks have examined their own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation, answering with various wind speeds, probably as expected.

>I don't mind if it is just yourself that you have to consider but when you mention taking your family then I do get worried.

I doubt many people would take wife and kids out in any sort of blow. I suspect the wife would refuse. Having said that we have rescued two charter boats in Greece both with wife and young kids who were all terrified - both force six with the normal Med big short period seas. One we towed to shelter and the other one I boarded and skippered into Fiskardo. I doubt either family went sailing again, which is a shame.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I have been in a similar position in Greece. To cut a long story short I was sailing with my family in company with another boat (48ft) crewed by a friends and his family. We were between two islands and the wind really got up (gusts of over 40knts). The dinghy was flying in the air behind the boat like a kite and the wind was lifting the sea in a wall. The friend’s boat was some way behind but their dinghy had taken off completely. They had a little bit of sail out but enough for the boat to be knocked on its side and the water on the sail and wind held it there.
My dilemma was do I think of my family and continue out of the two islands to slightly better conditions or go back and help. I was in a chartered Jenaneau 34.
I have to say it was one of the hardest decisions I have made but I did go back only for their boat to right itself as I got there.
Did it put me off? No, if anything it made me more confidence in the abilities of a boat to stay around in most conditions. Would I go out in those conditions given the choice? Never.

 

[westernman]

I will stay put if more then F7 and we need to beat to windward and the sea state corresponds to a F7 (there are conditions here where we can have F7 and flat seas).

If the wind is very definitely from behind, then anything up to F9. F9 with just the staysail up, is very comfortable - like riding on a magic carpet.

If it is raining, then whatever the wind strength we are staying in port.

 

[chinita]

Chinita,
After 35 years of sailing in every condition imaginable in all types of boats I have done most things, some of which I did with the forces and you would only dream about in your worst nightmares.
I know I have limitations and to go beyond them would put not only me but those brave souls who may have to rescue me in danger.
I also consider the limitations of my crew and their safety and comfort before making any decisions.
I have a boat that I trust will go on long after I just want to batten down the hatches and ride things out.
The biggest thing I have in my favour is in knowing those limitations and thinking not only of myself but others before deciding on any journey.
I would suggest my friend that if you do not think about these things yourself then you should start.

Well, that is fine then. And I am the one being called patronising!

However - these are the questions you asked:

1. There are those who enjoy sailing in high winds and find it exhilarating but at what point does the fun stop and it becomes dangerous?
2. At what point do you decide not to go out or if you are out when do you decide to head for that bolt hole?

It seems like that, with all your experience in the forces etc, these questions have already been answered - by yourself. Perhaps with all those nightmarish passages (which I could not possible imagine) you may care to pass on your wisdom to us.

You seem to have absolute faith in your own judgment and limitations; so carry on.

 

[sighmoon]

Nice vid. I should know the music, but forget (is this the start....?) - Pinetop Smith's BW, or Albert Ammons, or Pete Johnson..........?

Thank you.
Music is Albert Ammons - Boogie Woogie Stomp

 

[Sgeir]

Music is Albert Ammons - Boogie Woogie Stomp

Marvellous - thanks.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

There are two instances, when I decline to go sailing.

1. When it is flat calm.

2. I was going to say when the heeling would cause the rum to spill, but then I remembered this (where the rum would definitely have spilled:

So I would have to revise that to say I decline when over 20 knots.

 

[stav]

SO many variables for such a simple question. 30knts would be about my limit. Less with the family on board, more with a good crew or neap tides or if it will only blow 7 or 8 for a time say 4 hours whilst a front goes through on a 12 to 18 hour passage. Though with a forecast like that I would want to be clear of shipping/headlands upon the arrival of the wind. Assuming just in the Channel.

More than an 8 and things seem to get difficult but have never experienced more than an 8 in the channel but have beat into gusting 52 knts in the Solent and during the gusts the sigma 36 I was on just laid on its bean ends and went sideways.

But what makes a good sail for me is 15 to 20 knts and sunny.

Anything less than 7knts and I will go fishing instead.

 

[aquaplane]

I'm going to have to get a wind measurer so I know when to stay put.
Recently I decided not to try to get out of the sound of Mull with the wind on the nose, twice in one day, I decided I didn't really have to be at work in 3 days.
A 20' boat with a 6Hp outboard is more limiting than a 26' boat with a 20Hp inboard I have found.

 

[Lakesailor]

Funny thing about this thread is that a few years ago I had a hand-held anenometer and whenever I mentioned wind speeds loads of people would pile in with comments about "why would you want to to know the wind speed?" etc.
On this thread everyone and their dog seems to be quoting wind speeds. ( a few have mentioned sea state).
I still have a hand-held but rarely use it and don't trust it anyway.

I have found that if I am having difficulty raising the main because of the wind (swinging mooring, no current) then I probably won't have much fun sailing.
That's not to say my methods are perfect, I don't want a load of advice about raising the main, how would I guage the conditions then?. It just seems to work that way.

 

[westernman]

a few have mentioned sea state

I mentioned that and more importantly as far as morale goes, rain as well.

 

[webcraft]

.
I used to be really quite concerned abut having a working wind instrument, but it broke while we were in Norway last year and I haven't rushed to fix it.

I know that in open water the comfortable limits are F5 forward of the beam, F6 on the beam and F7 aft of the beam. In sheltered water you can increase these by a force.

- W

 

[Lakesailor]

...... more importantly as far as morale goes, rain as well.

Oh Rain. That's a no, no. Actually cloud is bad news as well.

 

[snowleopard]

GP14 rail under water for any time ...boat full of water .... sunk

In the early 60s I took a sailing course at a school on Portsmouth harbour. The main training boats were GP14s. They had 1/2" steel plate for centreboards and rudders to make them more stable. The sole buoyancy was a small cork block under each side thwart.

We sailed a fleet of them across to Bembridge with one support boat that at times was a mile away.

On the last day it was blowy and a couple of students managed to tip one over. All that was visible was about 4 ft of one gunwale.

Now who was moaning about today's health & safety?

 

[chubby]

Today I refused to go out, F6 gusting 7 in the solent on both forecasts and actuals: Bramblemet and Chimet and my wind intruments giving up to 28 knots, leaving Portsmouth on the ebb might have been fun and would have been wind over tide in the solent this morning on the westgoing tide, also as singlehanded thought I might not get back onto my swinging mooring easily if I turned back. Now I am feeling house bound, doesnt look that bad outside now, and no overnight on the boat this bank holiday weekend, sensible or wimpy? If I was already away on the boat i would have tried to get back but just didnt seem wise to set out, so sat on the boat for a bit and went home, always a day trip tomorrow?