When do you refuse to sail?

[samwise]

I think Snow Leopard has pretty much the right formula. This past weekend we went on a club trip from Levington down to Burnham. The forecasts were getting progressively more hairy as we went down and some group members, mindful of the need to get to work on Monday, decided to opt for a day sail and return home.

During the early evening and night at Burnham, the wind dropped completely. But by morning it was back with a vengeance, scoring 30 knots plus on our wind indicator. The forecast was for maximum sevens, but the wind was in the right direction and at our backs for a fast run home.

We had scheduled a 1600 departure on Sunday but a sudden lull around 1500 decided us to take the opportunity for an easy exit from the berth. It was a bit lumpy coming out because we were pushing tide, but apart from a bouncy mile across the Spitway with the wind on the nose, it was fine and we made excellent progress with just a half reefed genoa.

For the guys heading back to where we had come from, it was a different story and had we faced an adverse wind direction to get home I suspect we would have taken advantage of Burnham hospitality for at least another night!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

At what point do you decide not to go out or if you are out when do you decide to head for that bolt hole?

If I'm fully crewed for racing, we always go out for our normal 2 to 4 hour races. Possibly the one exception is when the wind is below 5 knots because we will be near last in those conditions anyway.

With my wife on board I go downwind in maybe 20 knots and upwind in no more than about 10 - swmbo fears the boat "leaning". I can have a good thrash to windwards with the lads so it's not fair to inflict this on my wife.

And if I'm passage making ( ie 12 hours sailing), I dont go out if the passage is to windward which is why we have been hanging around for 3 weeks now waiting to get out of the bristol channel and onto some nice soft south coast sailing.

Those are steady windspeeds not gusts and the boat is 35ft. ( 9.9 marina meters!)

 

[snooks]

There are so many variables, boat, experience, number of crew, ability of crew, wind with tide, against tide, it's really impossible to say.

While cruising Scotland, after getting a pasted a few too many times, we came to the conclusion we wouldn't go out if there was a 6+ in the forecast, as the forecasts aren't always that accurate. When we did look at the weather and think it would be fine (and there was a up to a 6 in the forecast), it would be stronger than a 6, especially with local hills mountains accelerating winds all over the place

On the south coast we'll go out in a 6, it's generally warmer (sea and air) and it's not effected by the landscape, so the weather is more constant. There is also far more weather information available on the south coast.

So it depends on where you sail as well

The reason we going sailing is to enjoy ourselves, spending 6 hours in 30+knots in a big seas, wearing oilskins and life jackets, boots and gloves, is not what I'd consider fun, and it usually ends up costing us more money.

I also won't go out if we need to get to at a port by a certain date, sailing to a deadline usually ends up by nature reasserting her authority.

We can do it if we have to, but what we have to do won't be controlled by deadlines on land.

 

[NormanS]

I reckon you can happily handle an extra two forces (Beaufort) when the sun is shining. But when it's cold and grey, and raining with poor viz.....include me out.

 

[rotrax]

I have to admit to being a fair weather sailor when at all possible.
As a live aboard with my family I have to think about them as well.
The forecast for today is of high winds so I shall stay nice and snug, batten down the hatches, put the kettle on and do some repairs, read the forums or generally find something to do.
There are those who enjoy sailing in high winds and find it exhilarating but at what point does the fun stop and it becomes dangerous?
At what point do you decide not to go out or if you are out when do you decide to head for that bolt hole?

Hi, Just arrived home after a fairly rough exit of Chichester Harbour. Left Emsworth Yacht Harbour at 0445.in about 12 knts.SSW. By the time we got to the entrance it was looking interesting-lots of white water. Wind had piped up between 18-25 knts. Exiting ride over the bar,bigish seas and green water over the bow. Should have gone earlier but it was a compromise between taking slack water at the bar or seeing where we were going in an unfamiliar shallow channel. Chose the latter. Once we headed for Gosport, taking the outside route for the deeper water it became a nice close reach with staysail and full main. Smoothed out a lot,as expected, in the lee of IOW. No dramas,only a couple of facefulls from the odd breaker on the port bow. Got onto our pontoon and made fast just as the wind picked up again. We would do the same again if circumstances required it,as they did today, but would prefer not to. Like motorcycling, sailing should be enjoyed not endured.

 

[KellysEye]

If intending to go upwind I would set off in anything up to 25knots, subject to no significant increase in the forecast. Offwind it doesn't really matter if you have a boat that can handle it, i.e. a racing boat that surfs and a big crew or two handed a boat that doesn't surf or broach.

 

[VO5]

Sevens, Eights and Nines have their charms too, with the spray and rain cracking sideways, but only for a few madmen, myself included. Not a squeak out of SWMBO, btw, she's used to it, grown to take it in her stride. She says wherever I go, she goes.

 

[dunedin]

+1 for the sea state and direction of wind the big factors, plus crew

On this trip with ships boy have
- gone out upwind in very marginal 5 to 6 poss 7 In Irish Sea (got lucky with 4 to 6)
- gone out downwind in shore lee with 6 to 7 poss 8 (mostly fast and fine but a few pasting squalls well into 8)
- tied up very firmly in port in 8 to 10 !

But learnings are
- downhill can be fast and smooth if go fast enough to reduce wave impact, provided skilful dinghy helm
- goes to windward better than expected under part furled genoa only, though if going further would have tried 3 reef main (adding foam luff and 3rd reef tamed previous issues)
- need to be extremely careful if out in true F8 - huge leeway means ability to climb off Lee shore even in eficient boat & rig is limited. Only other boats we saw had to rely entirely on engine which may not be safe

 

[pagoda]

+1 for the sea state and direction of wind the big factors, plus crew

On this trip with ships boy have
- gone out upwind in very marginal 5 to 6 poss 7 In Irish Sea (got lucky with 4 to 6)
- gone out downwind in shore lee with 6 to 7 poss 8 (mostly fast and fine but a few pasting squalls well into 8)
- tied up very firmly in port in 8 to 10 !

But learnings are
- downhill can be fast and smooth if go fast enough to reduce wave impact, provided skilful dinghy helm
- goes to windward better than expected under part furled genoa only, though if going further would have tried 3 reef main (adding foam luff and 3rd reef tamed previous issues)
- need to be extremely careful if out in true F8 - huge leeway means ability to climb off Lee shore even in eficient boat & rig is limited.

Only other boats we saw had to rely entirely on engine which may not be safe

We tend not to go out in anything promising over 6, but of course occasionally just have to cope with it when it does more.
Learning? reef early... we can do 6-8Kts on about 1/3 genny on its own in 25-30Kts, mostly off the wind though. I's rather have some sail up than none, for stability. In anything over 18-20Kts we frequently find ourselves alone with sail up, but people motoring nearby with bare sticks...but lurching all over the place horribly. I can't abide boat motion with motor alone in rougher conditions. We don''t suffer from sea sickness- concentrating on the tiller & wind keeps your mind rather busy.. down below might be different - but who'd go there willingly in a blow?

Graeme

 

[Ubergeekian]

When setting out I normally set a limit of 4 ahead, 6 behind.

Me too, but add one for sheltered waters (ie very reduced fetch), subtract one when I'm sailing with The Boy.

 

[chinita]

I think that if you have to ask that sort of question on an internet forum you need to examine your own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

I don't mind if it is just yourself that you have to consider but when you mention taking your family then I do get worried.

 

[AIDY]

if i'm unsure i always put my head out and have a looksee....

it's the sea state not the wind that worries me.... be quite happy sailing in an 8 if the waters flat

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think that if you have to ask that sort of question on an internet forum you need to examine your own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

Anyone who doesn't regularly examine his or her own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation is a fool. And what better way to examine one's own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation than by asking like minded people on a forum such as this?

I don't mind if it is just yourself that you have to consider but when you mention taking your family then I do get worried.

I'd be a hell of a lot more worried if he was taking his family sailing without examining his own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

I refused to sail a second time with a skipper who used a GP14 as a tool to attempt to satisfy his death wish. The rail had to be under the water at all times and nobody else was daft enough to be out in the conditions.

 

[upthesolent]

I'd be somewhat reluctant say going from Gosport to Lymington in a westerly F5, but more than happy with an easterly F6.

Came back yesterday from Cowes to Gosport with a constant blow F6 and some gusts touching F8 and had a fantastic sail in our 23 foot bilge keeler. I would say, in general, the biggest problem is sail handling, for when things go wrong with the sails flapping madly or getting caught, it is going to be extremely difficult to rectify in very strong winds.

Incidentally, I saw two yachts with foresail problems, one where he had lost sheet had come away from the clew and the other unable to get his foresail in and which was ripping to shreds.

 

[snowleopard]

I think that if you have to ask that sort of question on an internet forum you need to examine your own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

Maybe he's just interested in other people's views rather than being the incompetent you so patronizingly assume.

 

[bobgoode]

I have to admit to being a fair weather sailor when at all possible.
As a live aboard with my family I have to think about them as well.
The forecast for today is of high winds so I shall stay nice and snug, batten down the hatches, put the kettle on and do some repairs, read the forums or generally find something to do.
There are those who enjoy sailing in high winds and find it exhilarating but at what point does the fun stop and it becomes dangerous?
At what point do you decide not to go out or if you are out when do you decide to head for that bolt hole?

I'm with you on that plus SWIMBO goes out to double up the mooring lines at that stage.

 

[Chrissie]

I'd be somewhat reluctant say going from Gosport to Lymington in a westerly F5, but more than happy with an easterly F6.

Came back yesterday from Cowes to Gosport with a constant blow F6 and some gusts touching F8 and had a fantastic sail in our 23 foot bilge keeler. I would say, in general, the biggest problem is sail handling, for when things go wrong with the sails flapping madly or getting caught, it is going to be extremely difficult to rectify in very strong winds.

Incidentally, I saw two yachts with foresail problems, one where he had lost sheet had come away from the clew and the other unable to get his foresail in and which was ripping to shreds.

I sailed back from Swanwick to Gosport yesterday, very windy and a bit bumpy. I only needed half a fore sail to get home. I too saw a couple of boats strugle with their fore sails, on the home stretch just off Haslar, got my camera out and took a few photos of them. I had rolled my sail away sharpish when I came round Gilkicker, Ive had problems with the wind there in the past.
I did consider leaving the boat and getting a train, I felt a little guilty having new crew onboard who hadnt been out in such weather before, but knowing the boat could handle it, and Ive been out in worse many times, decided to go for it, glad we did as it was exhilarating.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I think that if you have to ask that sort of question on an internet forum you need to examine your own abilities/capabilities/limitations/motivation.

I don't mind if it is just yourself that you have to consider but when you mention taking your family then I do get worried.

Chinita,
After 35 years of sailing in every condition imaginable in all types of boats I have done most things, some of which I did with the forces and you would only dream about in your worst nightmares.
I know I have limitations and to go beyond them would put not only me but those brave souls who may have to rescue me in danger.
I also consider the limitations of my crew and their safety and comfort before making any decisions.
I have a boat that I trust will go on long after I just want to batten down the hatches and ride things out.
The biggest thing I have in my favour is in knowing those limitations and thinking not only of myself but others before deciding on any journey.
I would suggest my friend that if you do not think about these things yourself then you should start.

 

[Ricd]

I refused to sail a second time with a skipper who used a GP14 as a tool to attempt to satisfy his death wish. The rail had to be under the water at all times and nobody else was daft enough to be out in the conditions.

GP14 rail under water for any time ...boat full of water .... sunk