What would you do? Coppercoating conundrum.

[longjohnsilver]

I decided that I wanted to get Eos coppercoated, and it was suggested that a local yard would do a good job. No names given at the moment. Quote accepted, the yard then employed an outside contractor to gritblast the hull to remove the old antifouling. This was done a few months ago and the result was not quite what i expected, in places it had removed both the original epoxy coat and created small holes in the gel coat. However probably 95% + of the hull was still blue with a thin layer of old antifouling.

I had a surveyor around this week to do an insurance survey and he expressed surprise at what he thought was a poor blasting job, not so much because of the voids but more about the non removal of all the antifoul. His opinion was that if we coppercoated as is, the coppercoat would soon fall off as it was not being applied to a sound basis of gel coat or primer. The hull is perfectly dry and the voids are just small air pockets which the blasting has opened up. They can all be filled reasonably easily with epoxy filler.

His recommendation was to get the blasting firm back to finish the job, then prime and fill where necessary, then proceed with the coppercoating. However the yard has just phoned me to say that they are very reluctant to continue along these lines due to what they see as potential further damage to the hull. And doing it manually will be far too time consuming. They propose filling in the small voids currently visible, priming and then putting on conventional antifouling, and not charging me for the blasting carried out. They are trying to be reasonable and are good to deal with, I don't want to cause problems which could change this.

However, I still want the coppercoat as planned but really don't want the original firm back to carry out any further work. So my thoughts are to get someone else in to take off the remaining paint, apply filler where necessary along with at least one layer of epoxy, and then coppercoat. But that goes against the recommendations of the yard.

Initially my thoughts as to other options are to use an antifouling stripper or a powered scraper, but the scraper would be time consuming and very hard work.
Any other opinions or suggestions are welcomed as there are undoubtedly other angles I've not thought about. Thanks.

 

[maby]

My experience is that Coppercoat is absolutely fantastic - provided it stays on, but it comes off more easily than I like. We had a brand new boat professionally Coppercoated before it had ever seen the water - several coats of epoxy first followed by several coats of Coppercoat - all done in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. After a year, the boat came out of the water absolutely clean but with a significant number of bubbles in the Coppercoat. We were selling it and didn't notice the bubbles - neither did our purchaser's surveyor. When the bubbles started popping, the purchaser took it up with the contractor who had applied it - I lost touch and don't know what the eventual outcome was.

It's expensive stuff, so don't even think about letting anyone apply it over anything less than a perfect surface. Also make sure that your contractor is stable, financially sound and willing to give a decent warranty on their work. I loved it at first and I still miss the freedom to just lift it, give it a quick hose down and relaunch immediately - but our new boat is just treated with a coat of Cruiser UNO - I know that will fall off over the next 12 months, but it doesn't cost very much.

 

[Nick_H]

It's not unusual for small voids to be opened up in the gel coat by blasting. They're not that easy to fill because they're so small, and any epoxy you use will be warm due to the chemical reaction, so the trapped air expands and forces the epoxy out again. That said, I think the coppercoat, being water based epoxy, also creates a barrier.

My gut feel is you need to get the rest of the antifoul off before Coppercoat, though i'd suggest you get a definitive view from Coppercoat.

 

[KevB]

I would recommend coppercoat and if it was me would get another firm in to sadablast the remaining anti-foul off and then fill the voids. I assume that regardless if you take up their offer of filling the voids and then standard anti-foul or not take up their offer they're not going to charge you?

 

[theoldsalt]

I think the mistake was using GRIT blasting. It was inevitable that method of removing the old antifouling would cause damage to the epoxy protection of the gelcoat.

 

[Jurgen]

Hi John,

Speak to Elessar, he runs an Anti Foul Removal & Coppercoat Business in Southampton. Really helpful guy

 

[Hurricane]

I agree - get hold of Elessar for his advice.

I used a "slurry" process which I've said on here many times is amazing.
With slurry, you just can't believe it, - it removes the antifoul and not anything else.
Even plastic fittings that I'm sure would have been damaged with sand/grit blasting were just like new after the slurry process.
I did a lot of research on this and chose not to use sand/grit blasting.

Anyway, I suggest that you speak to Elessar for his advice

 

[rwoofer]

Sounds like a very poor grit blaster. I had my old Moody 44 blasted by Symblast and it was amazing how clean and smooth the bottom was afterwards. So much so that the following contractor had to sand the bottom to roughen it enough for the next epoxy coats to stick well.

 

[powerskipper]

Get the copper coat guys down and ask them, they will tell you what you would need to do for it to work for you. I had a long chat with the guys that did Mendez marines boats and he knows his stuff.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Sounds like a very poor grit blaster. I had my old Moody 44 blasted by Symblast and it was amazing how clean and smooth the bottom was afterwards. So much so that the following contractor had to sand the bottom to roughen it enough for the next epoxy coats to stick well.

Same company that did yours! Although they seem to have had financial issues and are now called something different.

Had a long conversation with a chap called Adrian at Advanced Osmosis who was very helpful, even though he's too far away to do the work. His recommendation is to use an orbital sander to remove the remaining anti foul, and thus causing no further damage to the epoxy or gel coat, but leaving a surface rough enough as a key for the epoxy.

Thanks for all the replies, I have decided that we must continue with the process and apply the copper coat, just have rather a lot of work to do to get there but I do have a mate who will do much of the sanding as required. I will have to make sure he wears the appropriate breathing gear.

Slurry blasting would have been my preferred option, but there doesn't seem to be anyone in the SW who can do it, unless anyone here knows otherwise? Still open to other ideas.

 

[rbcoomer]

Same company that did yours! Although they seem to have had financial issues and are now called something different.

Had a long conversation with a chap called Adrian at Advanced Osmosis who was very helpful, even though he's too far away to do the work. His recommendation is to use an orbital sander to remove the remaining anti foul, and thus causing no further damage to the epoxy or gel coat, but leaving a surface rough enough as a key for the epoxy.

Thanks for all the replies, I have decided that we must continue with the process and apply the copper coat, just have rather a lot of work to do to get there but I do have a mate who will do much of the sanding as required. I will have to make sure he wears the appropriate breathing gear.

Slurry blasting would have been my preferred option, but there doesn't seem to be anyone in the SW who can do it, unless anyone here knows otherwise? Still open to other ideas.

Hi John,

Right call I think on sticking to the plan - you'd obviously decided that it was what you needed and their errors shouldn't divert you from that IMHO. If you need an extra pair of hands over a weekend for sanding etc, then please shout!

Best regards,

Robin

 

[EugeneR]

I had a similar experience last year but fortunately the yard was really good and sanded the rest off before filling the voids and applying the coppercoat.

If the issue is caused by their contractor or blasting grit they chose, the yard should do what it takes to deliver what they committed to. It sounds like sanding is all that is required, and would get you the desired - and expected / paid for - outcome?

After losing part of the gelcoat and/or old epoxy, and due to the fact that it is almost impossible to fill all the holes properly, I would be concerned about moisture ingress if the hull was only primed and antifouled again.

 

[Bandit]

If the boat is sanded back to remove any remaining antifouling make sure that afterwards it is thoroughly pressure blasted to remove any dust and dries fully before filling and coating.

 

[longjohnsilver]

I had a similar experience last year but fortunately the yard was really good and sanded the rest off before filling the voids and applying the coppercoat.


After losing part of the gelcoat and/or old epoxy, and due to the fact that it is almost impossible to fill all the holes properly, I would be concerned about moisture ingress if the hull was only primed and antifouled again.

Yes that's exactly my concern and the principal reason for not going down that particular road.

And thanks Bandit, a good point, will give the hull a good pressure wash after sanding.

Again thanks to all for their thoughts. Robin, your offer is very generous, as much as I'm tempted to accept my enthusiasm is tempered by the knowledge you have a young family to entertain and your own boat project to complete.. I will PM you as and when we start, unless we bump into each other before then.

 

[rbcoomer]

Yes that's exactly my concern and the principal reason for not going down that particular road.

And thanks Bandit, a good point, will give the hull a good pressure wash after sanding.

Again thanks to all for their thoughts. Robin, your offer is very generous, as much as I'm tempted to accept my enthusiasm is tempered by the knowledge you have a young family to entertain and your own boat project to complete.. I will PM you as and when we start, unless we bump into each other before then.

Please do - my project will still be there in a few weeks and many hands made light work where sanding is concerned!

I've been concentrating on sorting the 14' at the moment anyway for the rally in May. Will probably take a week off or a few long weekends when it warms up to progress "the project". Outside temperature and humidity aren't ideal at the moment for fibreglass and the areas I need to do next are large and structural so can't really rush them!

 

[RAP77]

I had my boat 'Soda Blasted' by Mike Peonides of Biojet (Soda blasting).in 2008 in Mayflower marina
Brilliant finish - the shine was still in the gel coat - I had to roughen it before applying Coppercoat.

 

[longjohnsilver]

I had my boat 'Soda Blasted' by Mike Peonides of Biojet (Soda blasting).in 2008 in Mayflower marina
Brilliant finish - the shine was still in the gel coat - I had to roughen it before applying Coppercoat.

Thanks, very useful.

 

[volvopaul]

LJS.

You cannot just blast the hull and expect to get going with the roller straight after.
Symblast did my hull last year and it left a very small amount of antifoul, they also left a few pin holes too which were filled in no problem, you have to expect this. You will also need to sand the hull and wash it with water and leave to dry out.
Take some moisture reading before you even carry on applying anything else.

Personally I hear good and bad reports about the said company and have heard bad reports about others too so its a mixed bag in my view as to who you can trust these days.
I the end I got what I asked for from symblast, to simply blast the hull and remove the antifouling , no more.
They didn't leave any mess either on my boat or in the yard where it was blasted, they are the only company allowed in that yard , I trusted there opinion as to who to use and had no complaints.

The boat will need to be sanded to key it for the next stage, you cannot rely on just the blast effect to take the shine off it. My hull in places looked like virgin gelcoat and in places was as shiny as the hull sides. As your boats so big and your undertaking a big step I'd shop around for the best advise.
Were you there on the day they did it? I was with mine and I didn't let them go until they had hand scraped the rest off.

Loads of mixed opinions on here, I'd speak to copper coat direct, not contractors for an unbiased view.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Paul thanks for your comments. I have today spoken with Paul at Symblast who is prepared to come down and inspect and blast again if considered necessary. However my plan now is to sand the hull which hopefully will remove the remaining antifoul in a less destructive way. If that proves too onerous then I will take Paul up on his offer to re-inspect and carry out further blasting.

My sole concern is to come out of this process with a boat which is properly treated so that it continues with a dry hull for the next 25 years, as well as having a coppercoat antifouling system which was always the original intention.

 

[KevB]

I'm another very happy symblast customer and would readily recommend them.