What would happen if you forgot to winterise?

Stemar said:
It is a service item on my Qashqai. Every 30,000 miles, IIRC, which would be about every 3 years for a boat with an aluminium engine. I doubt if an old cast iron lump would notice if it never happened.
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I have seen this advice too, changing anti freeze every 3 years. Seems to be a feature of modern anti freeze compounds, unlike the old 'fill and forget' glycol anti freeze we used to use! Modern stuff is a lot more pricey too, wonder if there's a link?
 
In my view, the most important part of 'winterising' a typical yacht engine is to disconnect the exhaust.
That prevents condensation on the exhaust valves etc and also on the cylinder walls if the valves happen to be open (which would be one of our 3 cylinders).
Worst case, you might get significant bore rusting, maybe a stuck ring or two.
But that would be worst case, probably only happen on long lay-up in warmer conditions?
Hence I take the exhaust hose off the water lock and drain the waterlock and so forth. Then shove an oily rag up the exhaust hose towards the engine. It might be better to disconnect at the exhaust elbow but that's awkward for us.
I just drain the rest of the seawater system, give it a token flush and suck it out with the wet vac.

If the engine is going to be used at least once a month I don't bother.
 
oldharry said:
I have seen this advice too, changing anti freeze every 3 years. Seems to be a feature of modern anti freeze compounds, unlike the old 'fill and forget' glycol anti freeze we used to use! Modern stuff is a lot more pricey too, wonder if there's a link?
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Modern anti freeze in fact lasts longer.
The advice to change antifreeze every few years is not new, goes back to the 60s at least.
Probably wasn't relevant for 70s cars which seemed to need topping up all the time?
 
When I started driving, checking oil, water - and it often was only water in the summer - and tyre pressures was a weekly thing, plus a bit of oil in the carb dashpot every couple of months. As a driver for Plod, I was expected to check air and fluids at the start of every shift, and it wasn't rare for something to be needed. Getting an early shout was no excuse for not doing it.

My Qashqai, with 140,000 on the clock needs a bit of oil once or twice between services, but the only other thing I top up is the windscreen washer liquid. My previous couple of cars never needed anything. It makes one lazy!
 
Stemar said:
When I started driving, checking oil, water - and it often was only water in the summer - and tyre pressures was a weekly thing, plus a bit of oil in the carb dashpot every couple of months. As a driver for Plod, I was expected to check air and fluids at the start of every shift, and it wasn't rare for something to be needed. Getting an early shout was no excuse for not doing it.

My Qashqai, with 140,000 on the clock needs a bit of oil once or twice between services, but the only other thing I top up is the windscreen washer liquid. My previous couple of cars never needed anything. It makes one lazy!
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SU Carb's !!! Love em !!

What I have noticed is that modern cars now are actually designed to burn a tiny amount of oil ... which surprises me with cats etc. fitted.

As regards service and top-ups on my XC70 ... its a bloody Birthday if it ever gets anything !! Only thing I check - is that oil level - I have the typical Volvo tiny seepage leak on the turbo - and the tyre pressures due to AWD.
Quick drive through the forest and muddy up underneath and she goes through technical !
 
Ok thanks all i am not worried now! The reson i asked is that i read you shoul pump antifreeze/inhibitor through the fresh water system which i havent done
 
hennypenny said:
Ok thanks all i am not worried now! The reson i asked is that i read you shoul pump antifreeze/inhibitor through the fresh water system which i havent done
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I'm not sure you have read the correct procedure for your engine. An indirect cooling system (which I understand is what you have) has a seawater circuit and a freshwater (coolant) circuit. The freshwater circuit should always have antifreeze/inhibitor in it and should only need replacing at the interval specified by your engine manufacturer.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
oldharry said:
I have seen this advice too, changing anti freeze every 3 years. Seems to be a feature of modern antifreeze compounds, unlike the old 'fill and forget' glycol anti freeze we used to use! Modern stuff is a lot more pricey too, wonder if there's a link?
Click to expand...

When I were a lad antifreeze was largely used to stop the block and rad freezing in winter. Anti-corrosion was largely ignored and, as said, most motorists topped up with water during the summer and added some antifreeze at the start of winter. With all-iron construction, corrosion was not the end of the world compared to freezing.

In the 70s/80s/90s anticorrosion became more important with the greater mix of metals. Perhaps winters were also warmer? The additives lasted 2 or 3 years so regular changes were required.

Since the 00s, long-life antifreeze has largely dominated the market. As far as car manufacturers are concerned, their new cars are filled for life. In reality, this translates to 8 - 10 years and around 100k miles so it's not quite as described, but we've certainly come a long way. :)

Richard
 
Laminar Flow said:
We had our boat in Holland for a few years, where she was kept in fresh water over the winter. I was advised by the local yard to:

a) Completely drain all the water from the fresh water tank and system, including the boiler.
b) Empty the head system completely and fill with cheap vegetable oil.
c) Pump antifreeze through the wet exhaust until its coming out the back.
d) Drain and fill the entire inner cooling circuit with antifreeze.

Failing to do a), c), d), could be extremely expensive, failing to do b), could sink the boat.
I asked the locals in Brittany, where we are now, and they thought I was nuts.

I can say from experience that if you leave that vegetable oil in too long, it will hydrogenize and turn into margarine. This can result in a great deal of foul language. I use antifreeze now.
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Holland is subject to a Contintal climate and Brittany a Maritime one, There is a lot of logic behind the Dutch thinking (perhaps not the vegetable oil).
 
So nobody else thinks it's important to keep the exhaust manifold dry over a long winter lay up?
Surprised at this.
 
lw395 said:
So nobody else thinks it's important to keep the exhaust manifold dry over a long winter lay up?
Surprised at this.
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If you run A/F through both indirect and direct systems - why do you need to be dry ? A/F has both anti freezing and corrosion inhibitors.

People I suggest 'overthink' this ..... I suffer winters that drop to -10 average ... -25C at times ...

I never disconnect any pipes ... I have raw water cooled .. so I know the water WILL freeze as its brackish ... I close the inlet, open the top and take out the filter ... I have 10 litres of pure A/F ready ...
Funnel into the top of inlet ... start engine .... put to about 25% throttle ... pour in steady all 10 litres of A/F ... once all done. Stop engine .. filter and top back on inlet .. leave closed all winter.

Job done ... manifold, exhaust pipe, pipes ... never had a problem in over 14years here doing that ...
 
Refueler said:
Job done ... manifold, exhaust pipe, pipes ... never had a problem in over 14years here doing that ...
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I'm still not understanding the references to the exhaust manifold? All the antifreeze can do is coat the exhaust pipework downstream of the exhaust elbow coolant injection point. I don't see why the exhaust manifold would be wet or how you could protect it internally other than by unbolting it from the cylinder head or similar. :unsure:

Richard
 
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It seems people do not understand what a 'wet' yacht engine exhaust looks like?
Seawater is injected into the mixing elbow. When the engine stops, water remains in the waterlock or whatever exhaust piping is downstream of the engine.
That water will cause water vapour in the exhaust hose, mixing elbow, manifold and any cylinders where the exhaust valve is open.
At times, the engine will be the coolest bit and this water vapour will condense on the metal parts.
This is a BAD THING.
Over time, the condensation will cause rusting if the engine isn't run to dry it out and re-distribute oil.

So, removing the wet exhaust hose from the engine is a crucial part of layup, if the engine is not going to be run for several weeks.
Far more important than worrying about sea water freezing in the South of the UK, fair enough that may need thinking about in Siberia or Scotland.

I do not think the corrosion inhibitors in antifreeze will be remotely useful in preventing condensation corrosion in the cylinder etc. The air in the exhaust manifold will still be 100% humid and the engine will still be cold. Go figure.
 
lw395 said:
It seems people do not understand what a 'wet' yacht engine exhaust looks like?

So, removing the wet exhaust hose from the engine is a crucial part of layup, if the engine is not going to be run for several weeks.
Far more important than worrying about sea water freezing in the South of the UK, fair enough that may need thinking about in Siberia or Scotland.

I do not think the corrosion inhibitors in antifreeze will be remotely useful in preventing condensation corrosion in the cylinder etc. The air in the exhaust manifold will still be 100% humid and the engine will still be cold. Go figure.
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I understand in minute detail exactly not only what an engine exhaust looks like but how it works. :)

Are you actually suggesting that we should remove the wet exhaust hosing, remove the injection elbow and then either remove the manifold or spray it internally with anti-corrosion spray if it's not removable, if the engine is not going to be run for several weeks?

Is this a wind-up? ;)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
I'm still not understanding the references to the exhaust manifold? All the antifreeze can do is coat the exhaust pipework downstream of the exhaust elbow coolant injection point. I don't see why the exhaust manifold would be wet or how you could protect it internally other than by unbolting it from the cylinder head. :unsure:

Richard
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My Exhaust manifold accepts water in one end ... exits other .... the manifold itself is cooled as well as the engine ... it has a water jacket .....
 
Refueler said:
My Exhaust manifold accepts water in one end ... exits other .... the manifold itself is cooled as well as the engine ... it has a water jacket .....
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It has a water jacket as well as water inside the exhaust pipes? How far away from the valve head is the water actually flowing and is there a vertical separation distance between the valve and the flowing water? I'm interested as to how water back-drain into the cylinder is avoided.

Richard
 
RichardS said:
It has a water jacket as well as water inside the exhaust pipes? How far away from the valve head is the water actually flowing and is there a vertical separation distance between the valve and the flowing water? I'm interested as to how water back-drain into the cylinder is avoided.

Richard
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Because the exhaust pipe is lower than the manifold ... by significant amount.

Officially the Perkins has water up to exhaust manifold jacket ... through and then into engine block to cool head and cylinders .. exiting at front of engine - then down to exhaust .... and out..

Page M1 (88) of 4 Series workshop manual.
 
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