What to reef first

[Chris_Stannard]

Do you roll in, or change down to a smaller genoa/jib first or do youreef the main first? And for what reasons.
I seem to find that the boat goes well with a reefed main and the top of the genoa depowered by having the cars well aft but would be interested to know what others think. A recent boat test suggested that they rolled in some genoa before reefing the main but they were feathering the main. Sailing two hand that is not much of an option

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[dickh]

I usually reef the main first, then 2 or 3 rolls in the genoa. With the 1st reef in the main and about 5/6 rolls in the genoa, the boat is well balanced. This might only be true for my boat though.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Evadne]

I think it depends on your relative size of main and foresail, and the point of sail. My main & genoa are similar in size, so going to windward I first change down to the No1, then put reefs in the main until lee helm develops. It's ok up to F7 when I'd have to change to the small jib. This doesn't overlap the mast and we tack through a horrendous angle, so it's only used for running or reaching. If I have to beat into a F7 or more and the seas aren't too big then 3 reefs and the engine serve better. If well off the wind anyway, I will drop the main entirely above F5, and would change to the small jib at F7.

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[timevans2000]

We were out this weekend, with a F3 to F4 locally F5 forecast.

Wind went from F3 to F7 in about 5 seconds. We went from full sail to 3 reef in the main and 14 rolls in the genoa and deployed the inner jib. We were still doing 8 knots to windward with a good motion and nice and dry.

We have a very large genoa so we always roll the genoa first. once we get to the point that genoa is too baggy the inner jib is unfurled along with reefed main. This balances the boat well.

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[vyv_cox]

I have a book by Ian Nicholson called something like "The cockpit guide to sail setting". Not sure if it is still in print, mine is about 10 years old, but it gives typical racing sail configurations, rig tension, halyard tensions, etc., for every point of sailing and wind speeds F 0 - 10. From memory and my own practice, from say a 100% jib it is best to go down stepwise to retain balance. I would take in a reef on the mainsail first, then reduce jib area, then second reef in the main, and so on.

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[AndrewB]

The best one can say ...

... is that it depends: on the boat, the sails, the point of sailing, and the sea state. On my last yacht I kept a logged record of how fast and comfortable the boat was under different combinations and worked that up into a general set of guidelines. All part of the joys of ownership.

The one thing I don't go with, for cruising, is the suggestion of sailing with a continuously feathered mainsail. Too twitchy, bad for the sail, could get unmanageable in sudden gusts for a short-handed crew . Better to set the sail combination for the gusts rather than the lulls.

 

[gtmoore]

Re: The best one can say ...

This is an interesting thread for me. Being new to the art of sail setting, yesterday I had a rather unsatisfying sail up Southampton Water. I had one reef in the main and not much genny unfurled. Problem is the genny shape is not too good at that size so I get very little drive from it. We were also getting strong gusts causing the boat to round up very quickly - something I have not experienced with her before (although as I said my sailing experience is limited). I only have reefs 1 and 3 rigged - the third of which is very deep and I didn't feel that it was THAT windy. So half the time it felt we were mostly drifting and the other we were struggling to keep control. One of the things that I didn't think of before was using the mainsheet to spill the wind during the gusts. However, maybe it would have been better to drop the main and come up on a larger Genoa alone perhaps (as the wind was on the beam)? Or in these conditions is it best to just motor to get where you want to?


<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[tony_brighton]

depends what behaviour your boat is exhibiting as it gets overloaded - most boats will start to carry weather helm or broach first as a sign - suggesting reef down the main first. If its not rounding up but you are heeling well over I'd go for the gib first.

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[AndrewB]

Motor? Arrgggh!

Anything but that!

Plainly you need the second reef set up on your main. If for some reason you can't rig all three then sacrifice the third, at least while you are sailing around the Solent.

The rounding up was caused by too much main relative to the genoa, compounded by too much heeling. In my experience a baggy and shapeless genoa will actually make the problem worse. With the second reef in you could have achieved better balance with a more sensibly sized - and shaped - genoa.

Modern yachts will sail a beam reach, even up to a fine reach and tacking, under genoa alone, and its worth experimenting with this.

Wide-beamed cruiser-racers (which includes AWBs) are prone to rounding up in gusty conditions on a reach, known as 'broaching' when it becomes uncontrollable. Setting the mainsheet up so it can be quickly released to spill wind from a gust is really important. If you club race, or are cruising as fast as possible, it is normal to assign a member of crew to just that one function when on a reach.

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[davel]

Re: The best one can say ...

It was pretty windy yesterday and I'm not surprised that you had problems with your sail plan.
On most mainsails the first reef is fairly shallow (ie it doesn't reduce the sail area by much). If this is the case on your boat you'd have a pretty large mainsail and a pretty small genoa out. As such the majority of the force through the sails would have been coming from the main which would have the tendancy to push the backend of the boat away from the wind causing the rounding into wind you experienced.

Yesterday I had the second reef in the main and about one third on the genny out. I was pretty well balanced although the bigger gusts had me on the edge of rounding up.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dave L.

 

[andy_wilson]

If you are using a furling headsail / bermudian rig then the following shouldn't go too far amiss, starting in light airs with all sail set and trimmed 'baggy'.

1. As wind picks up progressively harden haliards and main clew outhaul to flatten, de-power and move draft forward.

2. If available (fractional rig) tension backstay to flatten mains'l further.

3. Move genoa cars aft to open headsail leech.

4 Reduce headsail and adjust cars forward until 100% foretriangle is achieved.

This is traditionally the designed working sail area, were it not for furling headsails of 140/150/160% ratios. Dependant upon class you are probably sailing like a dream in a F4.

5. Take in first reef in mains'l.

6. Second reef in mains'l.

7. Find harbour with decent pub. Otherwise..

8. Headsail down to half previous for what use it will be (shapewise). Resolve to have foam in luff renewed.

9. Third reef in main.

10. Roll up head sail and rig storm jib.

11. Down the main and rig storm tri-sail.

12. Discover religion.

13. Stream warps, buckets, kedge (if sufficient depth).

14. If no lee shore hand all sails, lash down and curl up below.

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[Chris_Stannard]

Many thanks, good advice and it made me chuckle. I have heard it said that genoa aft of the mast does much less than that forward of it. I was out yesterday with a 140% genoa with foam in the luff rolled in to about 100% and two reefs in the main. Boat was very comfortable and going up wind at about 6.5 to 7 knots.

We usually reef the main first, as we do not have to go to the mast to attend to the genoa. I was just curious to know what others do.

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[Talbot]

Re: The best one can say ...

You would be much better having reefs I and 2 rigged permanently. In the situation you were in this weekend, you could have put the second reef in, and then re-rigged the 1st reef line for the third reef. With your system, you have no choice but to go directly from 1 - 3.

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[gtmoore]

Re: The best one can say ...

Thanks for the replies. I only have 3 lines running through the boom, one is the outhaul and played safe when rigging the reefing lines. I have seen suggested here that I could use the outhaul as the 3rd reefing line rigging the outhaul manually (like my old laser I guess) but haven't tried that and wasn't sure I would be able to tension it properly anyway.

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Gavin

 

[Oldhand]

Entirely depends on what keeps the best balance on the helm of your particular boat. Furling some genoa is usually easier and quicker unless you have a furling main as well but if you need to point high, then try a reef in the main first and see if the helm lightens up.

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