What the.....

[Neeves]

There is no need for a specialised triple thimble when a simple large £5 super strong low friction ring, already anodised, can work better. Two lines plus an attachment to the chain can work perfectly on a single large thimble as has been shown in post #16.

The much less expensive £5 large LFR in my view is superior. It will have lower friction and therefore lower wear than the smaller holes and tighter radius in the more expensive and harder to obtain three hole device. Win win.

The pictured triple small low friction ring in Jonathan’s post is around £120 .

The problem needs a little bit of thinking outside the box .

View attachment 181376

The price is prohibitive (and very difficult to justify), which is why I have not tried one - but its an option. Someone, somewhere might make a cheaper version, in the same way LFRs and soft shackles cost peanuts from China including the large 4x4 versions. Similarly rock climbing belay plates and figure of 8 abseiling devices (ex Timu or Aliexpress).

Unless you actually have one you don't realise how big they are... the 4x4 recovery rings are huge!

I had 2 my 7075 aluminium alloy Bridle Plates made in China by the same company who make Ronstan's LFRs (and bought 2 sets of LFRs for almost nothing). They also made me 2 bridle plates in 2205 Duplex stainless.

Its debatable and having used LFRs in a bridle, set up as mine, the possibility of lower friction might not be advantageous.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

My curiosity. In the last picture why did you not fit the LFRs the other way round, I mean with the two "pretty ropes" threaded in the central hole and the dynema slings (longer of course) in the outside groove?

Bending radius of the "pretty ropes" should not be a problem, given the previous picture, and I figure friction would be less.

Sorry but I missed this query

The pretty ropes were sample the rope maker sent for me to test. But they sent rather a lot and I had some spares (and they are pretty).

I was looking for 'security'

The dyneema slings retain the snubbers, the pretty ropes. The snubbers cannot fall out or off. All ropes benefit from as gentle a turn as possible, I'm maximising life.

But its a all a bit cumbersome. I'm biased but think my bridle plate is neater



I have discovered that having the individual snubbers making a tight turn is advantageous - it improves scope which for me is better than prolonging snubber life. This is a 2205 Duplex stainless plate. There was an error in translation and they both polished and then painted it black . The advantage to me of the plate is I can retrieve to the bow, and simply lift the plate off the chain - one handed (and similarly attach the plate one handed). I can attach/detach even with the chain under tension - which is difficult with some chain hooks and soft shackles. The bridle plate has a pin to retain the chain, should the rode go slack and drag on the seabed.

If you want low friction something like this is the way to go (flying fox), more expensive than a 4x4 LFR but in the grand scheme of things they are cheap. I'm actually trialing it in the picture and I was trying a soft shackle retaining a conventional, old fashioned, chain hook. The hook has a simple slot. If the chain is under tension - the hook can simply slid off, the bridle attached to the furler drum with the same hook, all one hand.



Jonathan

edit

I've just seen the 4x4 large LFR advertised, Aliexpress, at A$1.52 (that's about 70 pence), free postage to Oz if ordering more than A$15 (simply add some soft shackles). Made from 6061 T6 aluminium alloy.

Its really difficult to understand why it seems every aluminium machiner in China has latched onto these devices.

We must be missing something.

For cheap, large, LFRs or Flying Fox pulleys try this link, prices are Australian $

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005...bac463&afSmartRedirect=n&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

[thinwater]

That is a clever idea. I'm not sure I would use the fancy weaving, in favor of something easier to replace when chafed by the chain. Maybe just an over thickness sling with a chafe sleeve on the LFR. Then seize (just to prevent dropping) a disposable soft shackle to the sling.

And still, the LFR is huge for the OP's boat! But it would work.

I have a few that big that I use for tree work.

I kind of reminds me of how we use rings for 3D leads for jibs. I had a conventional track on my boat, but now I use these instead. I can move the lead anywhere in seconds.

Another application, though the ring the OP has is still HUGE. In fact, most 3D leads use alloy rings, not LFRs per se. The larger ID provides more room fir multiple tackles. But LFRs work very well too, better if the deflection angle is large. I actually use climbing rap rings for many things; very cheap and perfect for boats up to about 30-35 feet.

$1-$5 depending on where you buy them. Anodized, 5000 pounds. LFRs are slightly lower friction and lighter, but rings are:

• Thinner if space matters. They lie flat better.
• Easier to thread tackles. Manage multiple lines better. More room inside.

My trimaran uses 8 LFRs and 6 rings. Dozens of conventional pulleys.

I never thought of it, but I might now use a ring to rig a bridle to a soft shackle to anchor. Like Nolex showed, but even simpler.

Not to say I don't like metal bridle plates. I introduced this one here and to Neeves more than a decade ago. He refined it a good bit, but I still like the original version. Simple and clean. A very strong lock, chafe-proof. The disadvantage is that only Viking (I think) makes a good one and they are not easy for most DIYs. You have to cut some heavy plate, and then there is the problem of galvinizing.

 

[Neeves]

I kind of reminds me of how we use rings for 3D leads for jibs. I had a conventional track on my boat, but now I use these instead. I can move the lead anywhere in seconds.

Another application, though the ring the OP has is still HUGE. In fact, most 3D leads use alloy rings, not LFRs per se. The larger ID provides more room fir multiple tackles. But LFRs work very well too, better if the deflection angle is large. I actually use climbing rap rings for many things; very cheap and perfect for boats up to about 30-35 feet.

$1-$5 depending on where you buy them. Anodized, 5000 pounds. LFRs are slightly lower friction and lighter, but rings are:

• Thinner if space matters. They lie flat better.
• Easier to thread tackles. Manage multiple lines better. More room inside.

My trimaran uses 8 LFRs and 6 rings. Dozens of conventional pulleys.

I never thought of it, but I might now use a ring to rig a bridle to a soft shackle to anchor. Like Nolex showed, but even simpler.

Not to say I don't like metal bridle plates. I introduced this one here and to Neeves more than a decade ago. He refined it a good bit, but I still like the original version. Simple and clean. A very strong lock, chafe-proof. The disadvantage is that only Viking (I think) makes a good one and they are not easy for most DIYs. You have to cut some heavy plate, and then there is the problem of galvinizing.

We have never used the hole at the apex for a second rode, we do use second rodes frequently but deploy them independently of the primary. We use the hole in the apex to hang the bridle at the bow, its then ready for use and easy to secure when retrieving.

The way round galvanising, if you make your own, is to use stainless. Its as easy to work as steel and if your piece of stainless is 10mm or more it will be well strong enough. You could use shackles as Thinwater has done for the 2 snubbers, in which case the holes are 'shackle' sized or you could make bigger holes to match 2 part threaded LFRs, available from a number of sources but Allen Bros in Essex are local to most in the UK. Allen's come in aluminium alloy or stainless and to confuse they call some thimbles and some LFRs (and they all look the same to me). If you are making your own the bigger the LFRs the better - but you need a decent bench drill and drill bit to make the holes (I bought mine from my source of all such things Temu or Aliexpress - the same source as Thinwater's rappel ring's (and Xinda is a decent supplier). I've seen a number of sources of a bridle plate like Thinwater's, but only from the US (I think I saw one in a West Marine store or catalogue). Viking make to the 'original' design with stainless, threaded, 2 part LFRs.

You can also make a device from shackles and a chain hook (I suppose and soft shackle) but they look a bit 'messy'.

Thinwater and I have used most of the ideas a number of times and they all work - but the neatest is any variant of the bridle plate. To my mind Viking's bridle plate is the best to buy. If you make your own you can make to your specific needs, size of snubber, size of chain, how you secure/retrieve etc.

Making your own is really not difficult, angle grinder and drill - and you can make the one in Thinwater's post. Some don't own an angle grinder, really?, so then you have to fall back on the other options.

I find it interesting that Zoidberg started a thread on an obscure item and we have managed to spawn a host of useful (or I find them useful) ideas.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

^^ Re. Xinda, there are always questions about Chinese quality, but Xinda does have UIAA approvals on at least some of their gear. If the stamp says 22 kn, you can believe it. I've used a lot of their carabiners for about 10 years and never been disappointed; they are better than some western brands I've used. It's not random cheapest-we-could-find stuff. But it is very well priced. Credit where due.

 

[Neeves]

West Marine bridle plate

Chain Gripper Plate | West Marine

and

Sea-Dog : Quality Marine, Industrial and Rigging Hardware

and also

ARRID Australia - Marine

and I've never heard of Arrid either

Jonathan

 

[zoidberg]

I find it interesting that Zoidberg started a thread on an obscure item and we have managed to spawn a host of useful (or I find them useful) ideas.

Aw shucks....

Not just a pretty face, then?

 

[thinwater]

West Marine bridle plate

Chain Gripper Plate | West Marine

and

Sea-Dog : Quality Marine, Industrial and Rigging Hardware

and also

ARRID Australia - Marine

and I've never heard of Arrid either

Jonathan

Yup. All of those designs have serious flaws. The Chain easily falls out of the Seadog plates if they rest on the bottom (common with cats) because they are poorly balanced and have no lock. The Alzone lock is awkward IMO (screw shackles take two hands).

 

[Neeves]

Yup. All of those designs have serious flaws. The Chain easily falls out of the Seadog plates if they rest on the bottom (common with cats) because they are poorly balanced and have no lock. The Alzone lock is awkward IMO (screw shackles take two hands).

I always get the impression, in similar circumstances, that neither the manufacturer nor the retailer actually uses the device. Hence the lack of attention to detail. Its sadly very common. The Witchard chain hook is a classic example, highly reputable company, but the locking pin (to secure the chain) is prone to bending (reported by a number of members on YBW) and under arduous conditions the hook itself can bend. The Oscalluti chain claw bends under arduous conditions, the claw simply bends and the chain slides out. Claws, cast, based on lifting claw designs cannot be detached under with the chain under load.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

I always get the impression, in similar circumstances, that neither the manufacturer nor the retailer actually uses the device. Hence the lack of attention to detail. Its sadly very common. The Witchard chain hook is a classic example, highly reputable company, but the locking pin (to secure the chain) is prone to bending (reported by a number of members on YBW) and under arduous conditions the hook itself can bend. The Oscalluti chain claw bends under arduous conditions, the claw simply bends and the chain slides out. Claws, cast, based on lifting claw designs cannot be detached under with the chain under load.

Jonathan

How about the Spinlock inflatable vests where the bladders pulled over the swimmer's heads. They were not tested in waves or expected to be used in break waves. Really?

Or the tether carabiners (also Spinlock) that would break under body weight if side loaded. Then they claimed there was no test for this, even though the ISO and ANSI side load tests (and clips that pass them) have been commonplace for over 50 years.

Not all gear is tested in real use. They give it to some guys, they carry it around for a while, but never test it in real use or using realistic methods.

The original Mantus chain hook is another example. Never pull tested hooked to chain.