Neeves
Well-known member
Post removed front answer.
Apologiers to Coopec.
Apologiers to Coopec.
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What size windless do I need?
- Thread starter Jasonbbo
- Start date
Refueler
Well-known member
I usualiy do the FWD trick to break the anchor out ... OK - I use a crappy old Plough anchor .. but I think it applies to all.
My reasoning is that most times - anchor shank will be generally in direction of the boat. So pulling astern will cause anchor to dig in further, OK - so we are talking about stem over the anchor .. so that line of pull is significantly out of alignment. But easing ahead - should cause anchor to either rotate or lift its shank ... breaking out in the process.
There is of course the 'wave lift' .... where you haul in tight, taking in more as the bow DIPS ... then when bow rises each time - its causing anchor to break out........
I have a Royal manual Windlass ... and I cannot remember ever using it for anchor. Its just too slow !!
Neeves
Well-known member
I have never claimed to have any accepted knowledge on anchors. In fact many dispute my comments. I have an opinion that I express. If you disagree with what I say I will fully accept your correction if you provide data to support your contentions.
You however have a business that may be involved in the installation of windlass - and I'd expect you know more than me.
Jonathan
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
I'm not keen on motoring forward to break the anchor out, don't like to risk the chain hitting the stem.
Completely agree with "wave lift" (or swell). If the chain is under tension that works well.
But, if the water is flat you don't get a "wave lift". With the chain vertical and under tension i've never had it set deeper and it easily breaks out under power.
NormanS
Well-known member
Having a sailing boat, I am quite happy to pull the boat ahead towards her anchor, using the windlass, without using the engine, unless there is a strong wind. When operating the windlass, all that happens initially is that the catenary of the chain is reduced, and that pulls the boat forward. This is of course, one of the advantages of using substantial chain, in my case, 10mm. If you use lavvy chain, you won't have the damping effect of catenary, and would indeed be pulling the boat directly, and could, if not careful, put an unfair load on the windlass.
I find in practice that the load on the windlass, when breaking out the anchor, is much greater than the load when pulling the boat ahead. All that is required is sensible use of the windlass.
I find in practice that the load on the windlass, when breaking out the anchor, is much greater than the load when pulling the boat ahead. All that is required is sensible use of the windlass.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
When anchored stern-to in Greece I find it best to not motor forward at all. Once the stern lines are released the boat moves forward as the chain falls to the seabed (catenary in action!) and a reasonably powerful windlass (1000 watts on 7 tonne boat) will comfortably pull it forward until over the anchor when it can be retrieved.
The result of motoring forward can be seen every day. The anchor drags across somebody else's chain and chaos ensues. If the motorer is really determined he can snag several chains, which makes it all the more amusing for the observer. Sometimes the motorer even manages to get someone else's chain around his prop. Great fun.
The result of motoring forward can be seen every day. The anchor drags across somebody else's chain and chaos ensues. If the motorer is really determined he can snag several chains, which makes it all the more amusing for the observer. Sometimes the motorer even manages to get someone else's chain around his prop. Great fun.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Pretty much exactly my thinking.
The oil capacity of the windlass gearbox is not huge and they do seem to leak a little. It is important to ensure the level is up to the mark, difficult to see in the sight glass in mine.
Cariadco
Active member
Ahhhh, Gaios springs to mind....
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Patmos in the Aegean is crossed chain heaven. Wind blowing across the anchorage causes far more sideways drift than people realise.
roaringgirl
Well-known member
What he said. Our 1000W Tigres was capable of lifting our 25kg anchor and 80m of 10mm chain off the seabed 25m below. It reached end of life when the bearings needed replacing and the unit was too corroded/seized to separate the parts to do it. I replaced with a 1500W only because it's all I could get.
As above, do not pull the boat up to the anchor using the windlass, motor or sail up to it and take in the slack. I learned some very good lessons when I spent a few months anchoring with no windlass, breaking it free and taking it up by hand was all about technique and patience, not power of arms!
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
What's the difference between dragging the boat "forward until over the anchor when it can be retrieved." and gently moving the boat "forward until over the anchor when it can be retrieved." with the engine ?
How does moving the boat forward with the engine, retrieving the slack chain, until over directly over the anchor, result in dragging the anchor across somebody elses chain ?
johnalison
Well-known member
We have a 45 lb CQR and a 1000W windlass with 5+ tons and it seems quite adequate. I agree with the previous cautions, but in quiet conditions find it adequate to get the boat moving forwards with a nudge and then knock it into neutral in order to rev at about 1500 to generate enough current to protect the battery.
Neeves
Well-known member
The release tension needed for an anchor is roughly equivalent to the hold that has been developed by your engine or wind. If you have the rode vertical and there is no chop and you reverse the engine the best you will do, if the anchor has been set deeply by wind, is set the anchor more deeply - as your engine will have insufficient grunt to shear the seabed adjacent to the anchor - the seabed's shear strength will be beyond the grunt of your engine to allow you to release the anchor. If you motor forward you may be able to break the anchor out as you will have the lever action of the shank working in your favour which will work on the toe - rotating about the heel.
You are the only person to mention 20t vessel and the only person to suggest dragging said vessel forward with a windlass. The thread is about a 6.5t vessel with a 1000 watt engine. As many have mentioned - using the windlass to pull the yacht forward should be well within the scope of the windlass. Your mention of a 20t vessel is outside the scope of this thread and outside the recommended size for a 1000 watt windlass.
As Coopec said - give it a break.
Jonathan
roaringgirl
Well-known member
Given the twists of this thread, it's worth mentioning that some anchors at least prefer a different release strategy. Fortress recommends motoring forward and taking up slack until the rode/chain is vertical, then waiting with it tied to a strongpoint. If wave motion doesn't break it free, drive _backwards_ to free it, driving it forwards has a higher risk of bending the shank. See item 7 here: Safe Anchoring Guide - The World's Best Anchors!
NormanS
Well-known member
Once the chain is vertical and made fast, any movement, back forward or sideways, will eventually break out the anchor. (Unless it's fouled under an immovable object).
vyv_cox
Well-known member
The clue is the word 'gently'. You and I might do it like that, if I was to use the engine at all, but many others give huge bursts of throttle. Combined with wind blowing across the beam in many Greek harbours this results in far more movement than is needed. To be fair, once the boat has left the quay it is difficult to know exactly where the boat is relative to the anchor.
I have seen this happen so many times that I have a 30 minute talk on it (see it at the CA Med Seminar in March 2023)
Pete7
Well-known member
Neeves
Well-known member
Neeves
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PaulRainbow
Well-known member
The anchor is set with xx:1 scope, breaking it out with the chain vertical and under tension is different, to say the ancho has the same hold with the chain vertical is beyond belief. If that were the case we'd all set the anchor, then retrieve the chain, in busy anchorages.
With just over 700hp, i doubt very much that's true
My previous boat, which i sold last Summer, was 35ft, 6/7 tons, fitted with a 1000w Lofrans Cayman windlass and 8mm chain, was pretty much identical to the OPs current boat as far as this thread goes.
Never had an issue with breaking the anchor out with the engine, should it have not been possible to break it out using the waves/swell.
Perhaps you need a better engine ?
When were you and Coopec promoted to forum moderators ?
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