What safety flares should I have for coastal sailing

[[70521]]

"Nobody would count that number", so perhaps few or none are used, which is why there are no reports, people preferring their DSC button which even a child can use.
How many buy them & take the trouble to read the instructions (do your crew know how to) ?
There is no standard method of setting them off, each manufacturer seems to have a different method, so are there mixed types onboard?

I can well understand their usefulness in Mountain Rescue, but how many people will be there to see when offshore?
Even parachute flares are recommended to be fired in pairs, so what hope a handheld being seen at sea level?

Perhaps nobody does use them, but why should that stop people from choosing to carry them? I have seen them being used successfully and had the advantage of being able to speak to the helicopter pilot - saving time getting a critically injured climber off the hill. DSC is part of a range of tools we have at our disposal and is brilliant for raising the alarm, but it is the last mile that is always the most difficult part of any search operation. Look at any lifeboat's AIS transmissions when they are doing a box search - these take time - something that when you are in the water you don't have much of, I also transmit on AIS.

The "time and trouble" given by each skipper to their safety equipment is purely up to them. Personally, I know how to use the kit, and have actually used it, all crew are briefed before departure and that includes the flare pack.

There is not a huge amount of difference between a mountain and the sea when doing a search. The CG helicopters are tasked with both, just as the RAF and RN used to do both, in reality you use pyrotechnics when you see something be that another ship or people. The brilliant thing about flares are their impact, rockets do a big flash in the sky and drift slowly down, firing a second is to alert the viewer they have not see a ghost. Handhelds are to bring in a boat/helicopter as there is a bright red glow over there - Lifeboats are the colour they are for a reason. The video clip was specifically chosen so that people could see their use; the pilot saw it in his peripheral vision - try that with a torch.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have let off old flares and watched let off, when tide out at YC (and river unnavigable) after GC notified. No troubles at all. I have also let off flares in suburban garden miles from the sea to demonstrate to Navigator. No problems there either, and neighbours unperturbed

Yes they are hot, but like their junior brother the sparkler they are meant to be held. Gloves useful, but probably if you need them you will be drenched seasick and fearing death not minor scorching.

They have much better range than electro strobes and search helicopters can sea them on thermal imaging even through cloud.

I keep two white flares at helm station.

 

[Refueler]

Of course, but some on here are advocating white ones, as used on the Western Front.

Don't twist the words ...

Myself and others advocate white as WARNING flares ... NOT as DISTRESS.

I gave example of encountering fisherman ... even the crew guy on deck would catch sight of a White WARNING flare ... but never hear or see AIS / VHF warning ...

 

[[163233]]

In general most of us are usually in the position where we are supposed to avoid the fishermen.

 

[Kukri]

In general most of us are usually in the position where we are supposed to avoid the fishermen.

Indeed so. For the sake of argument, you are in a flat calm with a rope round the propeller...

 

[[163233]]

Indeed so. For the sake of argument, you are in a flat calm with a rope round the propeller...

It probably belongs to the fisherman. It might be best that we are drawn together.

 

[Refueler]

In general most of us are usually in the position where we are supposed to avoid the fishermen.

Not 100% of situations ....

You may be in difficulty but not distress ...

 

[[163233]]

Not 100% of situations ....

You may be in difficulty but not distress ...

In which case you'd probably have to explain the situation to them somehow.

Would they come up and investigate a white flare or keep clear of it?

 

[[70521]]

On reading some of these posts I am thankful I sail in quiet waters.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

On reading some of these posts I am thankful I sail in quiet waters.

Its not just the fishing boats that worry me. Its drift nets left unattended across tideways (against regulation), crab pots in fairway just outside harbour authority limits, and rather randomly scattered within it. Sharp knives and once the RNLI longer knife and a tow facility

However for sheer alarm its fishing boats with nav lights off and no AIS beacon, right in front of me on foggy nights. Twice now, once by Solent and once between Traffic Separation zone on way to Brittany. On the second ocassion, all their lights mysteriously turned as I was about 2 cable length away. I didnt need white flares but my language might have turned the air blue

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I let off some 15-yr old red rockets (Pains Wessex) on VE Day, the height and brightness were reduced but very much better than nothing.
The whole situation is warped by folk being legally unable to let off a few flares for practice and familiarisation.
Once you get used to them, it's the best organic signalling method that's been invented, for a vessel demanding attention.
The advertisers of LED 'flares' should be locked up, for insinuating that proper flares are 'dangerous'.

 

[Refueler]

In which case you'd probably have to explain the situation to them somehow.

Would they come up and investigate a white flare or keep clear of it?

Are you just trying to bait me or actually not understanding ?

 

[[163233]]

Are you just trying to bait me or actually not understanding ?

A bit of both really.

What scenario are you envisioning?

 

[Refueler]

A bit of both really.

What scenario are you envisioning?

I'm picturing you on your boat out there wishing you'd understood a bit better and acquired a couple of White Flares to draw attention to yourself ...

 

[Kukri]

I'm picturing you on your boat out there wishing you'd understood a bit better and acquired a couple of White Flares to draw attention to yourself ...

... because you are in the situation I mentioned earlier (because it happened to me) - it’s a calm night, you’ve got something round the prop which you plan to sort out in daylight, and you can see a green, a red and two whites in line, getting rapidly larger... you have tried a VHF call, you have shone a torch on your sails, and at where you think their wheelhouse may be...

 

[[70521]]

I'm picturing you on your boat out there wishing you'd understood a bit better and acquired a couple of White Flares to draw attention to yourself ...

And wondering why he did not bring his cycle clips.

 

[[163233]]

... because you are in the situation I mentioned earlier (because it happened to me) - it’s a calm night, you’ve got something round the prop which you plan to sort out in daylight, and you can see a green, a red and two whites in line, getting rapidly larger... you have tried a VHF call, you have shone a torch on your sails, and at where you think their wheelhouse may be...

I doubt they'd see a flare either if they were that incompetent.
The torch does at least stay on for more than a couple of minutes.

 

[Kukri]

I doubt they'd see a flare either if they were that incompetent.
The torch does at least stay on for more than a couple of minutes.

No comment.

 

[Refueler]

I doubt they'd see a flare either if they were that incompetent.
The torch does at least stay on for more than a couple of minutes.

You really do not get it do you .... have you ever seen how bright a White Flare is ? Even if you are not looking at it ... the amount of cast light is HUGE compared to a hand held torch .....
The Flare's light will reflect of any metalic object around the other guys ... it is THAT STRONG ..

Suggest you do a little detective work about how good white flares are before you start thinking a torch is as good !!

 

[Refueler]

No comment.

I know - its hard work isn't it !!

One only has to compare Fireworks Night to torches ... average firework is far less than a flare - but it still beats a torch hands down ... the flare casts huge amount of light 360 degrees ... but a torch relies on concentrating its light in one direction ...