Kukri
Well-Known Member
I have used white ones twice and a red one once and all three were seen.
“Would you let you wife or kids let one off if you were incapacitated?” - I can’t believe my eyes!
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What safety flares should I have for coastal sailing
- Thread starter Adrian62
- Start date
I have used white ones twice and a red one once and all three were seen.
“Would you let you wife or kids let one off if you were incapacitated?” - I can’t believe my eyes!
Kukri
Well-Known Member
This is turning into a Colregs or Anchor thread.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Yes, because there are no direct modern substitutes.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Yes. I carry gas when I could use paraffin and I carry outboard motor fuel when I could use oars.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
So ancient then.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
I let off a dozen or so date expired ones of various types and makes one bonfire night many years ago, well away from the coast. Biggest problem in the dark was the different trigger types, which I would suggest need to be standardised. Anyone should be capable of using them IF there's enough light to read the instructions. I wonder how many people have taken the end cap off (some are removable without damage) parachute flares to see how the trigger works?
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Sandy’s post #74 shows the crew of an RNLI ILB, surely amongst the best equipped vessels in the country, reduced to using flares because none of their other equipment was working. The helicopter was scrambled when two flares were spotted and a third flare was needed for the helicopter to find the boat.
QED. And incidentally let us note that the RNLI carry them.
QED. And incidentally let us note that the RNLI carry them.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Too many people assume that signals from their "modern" electronic distress signals will be received by other boats - dream on. You may be just over the horizon from me and I may not have a dsc radio and the vhf volume may be turned down, I can't receive your cellphone or plb, I don't have ais so, how are you going to tell me you're in distress?
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
So unlikely to see a handflare either then.
I well remember recommendations that they should only be used, 'if' there is a likelyhood of they being somone there to observe them.
Even then the observer may have no clue as to its significance (cue the CG cartoons on TV so years ago, when the guy on the beach just waved back at the guy in trouble).
Graham376
Well-Known Member
But maybe see orange smoke or parachute flare.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Parachute flare maybe, fired in pairs, but smoke over the horizon, at night?
Kukri
Well-Known Member
That’s what the parachute flares are for. Fired in pairs, one after the other, not because the first one might not be seen but because an observer, seeing the first flare, a very unexpected sight, will say to herself or himself, “did I just see a red flare?” and take no action, but when the same person sees a second red flare they will have no doubt and will act accordingly.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Of course, but some on here are advocating white ones, as used on the Western Front.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I have never seen a white parachute flare, and I can’t think of a use for one in the context of messing about in boats.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
I would ignore a white flare, not a distress signal. We sometimes get airforce excercises where they're dropping them but usually forewarned by navtex.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
First, I’ve used a red handheld in anger as the lifeboat couldn’t locate us using their electronics. Dark and stormy night, coxswain asked us for a flare and five minutes later was alongside. We had totally failed to see the lifeboat because of the appalling visibility and waves; he’d not seen the direct light of the flare but the loom of the light illuminating the spray. I can’t imagine that he would have seen the relatively feeble light of an electronic beacon, which outputs much less than a flare. He certainly didn’t see our torch or nav lights.
As to getting another crew member to use pyrotechnics, the Admiral and I have both attended HMGC training sessions where they show you flares and, more importantly, how to use them by getting everyone to set off a flare and a smoke. Yes, they burn at a high temperature, yes they spew out hot ash, yes, they aren’t playthings. But its not difficult to obtain a bit of training nor is it difficult to use them with reasonable safety. Remember, these are tools to summon help when life is threatened.
An EPIRB or PLB will take 30 - 45 minutes to result in SAR assets being tasked to your location. DSC is only any good if there’s someone in range listening in and prepared to go below and press the right buttons to get the data out of the radio: do you know how to do that on your set? But if you see a red flare or red parachute flare or red smoke, you know what to do don’t you?
Don’t forget that one of the search systems on the helicopters uses heat to spot casualties: one of the major outputs of a flare is just that heat. So even if the visibility is poor, there’s a good chance of being seen because of the plume of hot air.
So, I’ll be carrying pyrotechnics until the day that someone comes up with a simple to operate beacon which puts put as much light as a flare, is capable of being fired at least 300 feet into the air and is recognised by SOLAS and the MCA. In the meantime, I’ll carry an electronic beacon as an add on to the inventory but not my main means of signalling.
As to getting another crew member to use pyrotechnics, the Admiral and I have both attended HMGC training sessions where they show you flares and, more importantly, how to use them by getting everyone to set off a flare and a smoke. Yes, they burn at a high temperature, yes they spew out hot ash, yes, they aren’t playthings. But its not difficult to obtain a bit of training nor is it difficult to use them with reasonable safety. Remember, these are tools to summon help when life is threatened.
An EPIRB or PLB will take 30 - 45 minutes to result in SAR assets being tasked to your location. DSC is only any good if there’s someone in range listening in and prepared to go below and press the right buttons to get the data out of the radio: do you know how to do that on your set? But if you see a red flare or red parachute flare or red smoke, you know what to do don’t you?
Don’t forget that one of the search systems on the helicopters uses heat to spot casualties: one of the major outputs of a flare is just that heat. So even if the visibility is poor, there’s a good chance of being seen because of the plume of hot air.
So, I’ll be carrying pyrotechnics until the day that someone comes up with a simple to operate beacon which puts put as much light as a flare, is capable of being fired at least 300 feet into the air and is recognised by SOLAS and the MCA. In the meantime, I’ll carry an electronic beacon as an add on to the inventory but not my main means of signalling.
Praxinoscope
Well-Known Member
This comment must be the 2020 equivalent of tha comment made in the court in the 'Lady Chatterly' trial in the 60's when
it was asked 'would you wish your wife or servants o read this?'
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Well, exchange wife & kids, for crewmember then.
Unless they have some competance with flares, would you still let them?
Do you even show them the container & let them handle them during any safety brief?
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
Yes, of course. Anyone coming onboard for anything other than a few drinks gets a standard safety brief, including where the flares are and how to use them. Everyone gets a laminated card: one side is how to make a DSC mayday call, the other side is how to use pyrotechnics. It’s not that difficult. Obviously, a child of under about 12 or 13 isn’t included in that but everyone else is. Don’t you do something similar on your boat?
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Hee hee! Dunno why people dont ask the Rescue Services that have to come and get you what they prefer!
