Kukri
Well-Known Member
As it is by having gas aboard. Or outboard motor fuel. Or by - heavens - going to sea.
What safety flares should I have for coastal sailing
- Thread starter Adrian62
- Start date
As it is by having gas aboard. Or outboard motor fuel. Or by - heavens - going to sea.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I lost count of how many Very Pistol White flares I've fired when doing seismic work to get ships / boats etc to turn away ...
We would always make numerous VHF calls stating position and all details so the 'offender' would know its them we are calling ... but 9x out of 10 ... we'd end up firing a white flare ... THAT WORKED EVERY TIME.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Or just the act of living !!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I say this seriously ....
I value life and if any form of distress signal or item saves life ... then I am for it. The idea that Pyrotechnics are old hat and not to be carried in my honest opinion is foolhardy and to only rely on electronic means is just plain trusting in the gods. Pyros need no external power / energy other than you as a user to understand how to use.
In many years at sea ... professionally and private : I can say that a VHF call is NOT the complete answer - I have witnessed too many misunderstandings / lack of realisation who's being called etc. to put my life in the hands of a VHF call.
Mobile phones ... my work puts my guys offshore ... 6 ... 10 ... 12nm etc and many of them have extreme difficulty especially with todays Smartphones that have significantly less antenna capability than the old Nokia / Ericsson etc.
PLB's ... EPIRBs ... etc. fine - but also they rely on YOU to keep charged / serviced.
Pyros sit in the container quietly year after year - require nothing ... you open container and pull the ring / turn the end / strike the cap ... and it works.
I hope no-one has to use them ... and I hope that those who are against them never have to prove their decision.
Life is Life and you only have ONE time at it.
I value life and if any form of distress signal or item saves life ... then I am for it. The idea that Pyrotechnics are old hat and not to be carried in my honest opinion is foolhardy and to only rely on electronic means is just plain trusting in the gods. Pyros need no external power / energy other than you as a user to understand how to use.
In many years at sea ... professionally and private : I can say that a VHF call is NOT the complete answer - I have witnessed too many misunderstandings / lack of realisation who's being called etc. to put my life in the hands of a VHF call.
Mobile phones ... my work puts my guys offshore ... 6 ... 10 ... 12nm etc and many of them have extreme difficulty especially with todays Smartphones that have significantly less antenna capability than the old Nokia / Ericsson etc.
PLB's ... EPIRBs ... etc. fine - but also they rely on YOU to keep charged / serviced.
Pyros sit in the container quietly year after year - require nothing ... you open container and pull the ring / turn the end / strike the cap ... and it works.
I hope no-one has to use them ... and I hope that those who are against them never have to prove their decision.
Life is Life and you only have ONE time at it.
xyachtdave
Well-Known Member
But they do go out of date every 3 years and have the potential to injure the user.
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
When was this? And was your boat broadcasting its position etc on AIS?
Times move on and best solutions do change over time.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
True, but how many pyrotechnic injuries do you hear about?
If stored properly in a cool dry place, unlike the unfortunate forum member who stored his just under the cockpit locker in Greece where they went off one hot day, then they will last well past their use by date, just don't take them to France unless you want to hear the snap of marigolds and transportation to the Bastille.
I have fired flares more than 20 years past their use by date without a problem. As an retired Safety Engineer pyrotechnic companies are mitigating their risk should they end up in court, "my lud, the flares were used outside their ...", you can just hear the barrister cackle.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Let me give you a few examples that may show how unreliable your trust in AIS is :
Many fishing boats - forgive me "fisherman' - but I have to say it ... many fishing boats as example are pre-occupied with net and catch .. the helmsman concentrating on watching his guys land the catch and not do anything stupid .. so he's more interested in the aft deck ..
AIS ? His minds on his guys and work ... not a screen unless its a Fish Sonar !!
Do not expect everyone to be 21st century out there ....
I do not say best mothods - what I say is reliance only on modern technology will possibly lead to suitable mention on the Tombstone.
I relate use of flares to personal experience ... as to whether accepted by others or not is not my problem. But I would like those who are new to the 'game' understand what they are looking at.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
The 3 year is a date ... I have let of flares that are over 20 years old ... no problem at all.
There have been VERY FEW actual injuries due to failure or faulty flares. Majority of injuries have been due to user ....
I know people will quote the poor guy who had one seriously injure him ... that is one of very few actual flare misfires and is a sad affair. BUT given the millions of flares - the record of safe vs unsafe use speaks for itself ... its a hugely better record than some here would have one believe.
xyachtdave
Well-Known Member
I respect all points raised Refueler and Sandy.
From an environmental point of view that’s a lot of unused flares straight to landfill, or wherever they go.
I have them onboard, I’ve always changed them at expiry date, so on about my 5th set now.
So knocking on a grand spent, never needed one and answering the OP who is bombing about the south coast probably during daylight hours in reasonable weather, he can probably live without them.
From an environmental point of view that’s a lot of unused flares straight to landfill, or wherever they go.
I have them onboard, I’ve always changed them at expiry date, so on about my 5th set now.
So knocking on a grand spent, never needed one and answering the OP who is bombing about the south coast probably during daylight hours in reasonable weather, he can probably live without them.
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
OK, that's answered the OP's simple question in 70 posts - buy a coastal pack and maybe a couple of whites. Now, what sort of anchor have you got and do you know why you should choose a different one because it's no good?
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Even in-date have that potential.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
How often do you hear about any being used?
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Nobody would count that number. However they would report if there was a serious injury - MAIB would be VERY interested. I met Duncan Wells, the chap everybody refers to as the pyrotechnic that went wrong, at the Southampton Boat Show back in 2018, a lovely guy.
Perhaps I am bias as I spent five years as a member of a Mountain Rescue Team but this YouTube clip shows the benefit of a flare. I have posted it before and make no apology about posting it again.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
That video also shows how hard it is to find someone in the water. The helicopter flew over him twice.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
On exercise we had a helicopter fly over a "casualty" five times while they sat on a big orange bivi bag. In the end they got on the radio and gave them the OS grid reference.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
It would seem a range of options might be sensible to be used in varying stages of desperation. After some years replacing flares a year or so after expiry mainly due to absence of proper disposal facilities we invested in the electronic version which I think I would feel much happier others using but have some in date standard ones but perhaps more as a back up . I guess ones view is determined by sailing zone but even crossing out of Solent even to say Weymouth it can be hard to spot small vessels. I recall we were once called by coastguard as we had ais to ask if we could see a dismantled yacht. Despite binoculars in absence of any radar it was only when we saw the lifeboat spray were we able to work out where the casualty was located so in such scenario as clearly the yacht in question had no ais a flare might have helped I guess if the LB hadn’t arrived.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
"Nobody would count that number", so perhaps few or none are used, which is why there are no reports, people preferring their DSC button which even a child can use.
How many buy them & take the trouble to read the instructions (do your crew know how to) ?
There is no standard method of setting them off, each manufacturer seems to have a different method, so are there mixed types onboard?
I can well understand their usefulness in Mountain Rescue, but how many people will be there to see when offshore?
Even parachute flares are recommended to be fired in pairs, so what hope a handheld being seen at sea level?
goeasy123
Well-Known Member
Please respond to this question. A simple yes or no will do....
If it were proven that carrying flares increased the risk of death or injury on a boat when you already had an adequate set of modern safety measures on board would you still carry flares?
If it were proven that carrying flares increased the risk of death or injury on a boat when you already had an adequate set of modern safety measures on board would you still carry flares?
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
I would also ask, how many on here, have actually used one, they don't get practised live, even on a RYA course, so using one when in a 'panic' situation is fraught with danger. Would you let you wife or kids let one off if you were incapacitated?
