What safety flares should I have for coastal sailing

[Sharky34]

As implied by some other posters on here, I think the question needs to be given some extra context to give a good reply.

Safety gear should be considered as a wider set, not just in isolation. Particularly when deciding what are the priorities for spend.

In my view (and with input from an MCA conversation) the first priorities would be
- VHF radios - ships and hand held
- GPS emergency beacon(s) - PLB and/or EPIRB
- AIS transceiver
- liferaft - which will generally come with some pyrotechnic flares whether we like it or not
- mobile phone in waterproof case
- LED flare
Only after having ticked all of them would I invest in any more pyrotechnics over what is in the raft.

I used to carry one current Coastal pack of flares, plus the most recently past dated as backup (not in French waters). But doubt will replace the current pack, keep for a few years lost date then dispose.

Wouldn't lifejackets come ahead of some of those?
Remember some of us went cross channel with little of all that & actually survived

 

[Sharky34]

I see more use for white para flares than white handheld. The para illume might help you spot someone who'd managed to go overboard at night without a working lifejacket light; once located you can keep a spotlight beam on them after the flare burns out. I don't carry any, but it seems a valid use.

White handhelds made sense back when torches were feeble and yacht electrical systems were weak and unreliable - a flare was a dependable way to generate a lot of white light in a hurry. Nowadays you can use halogen or LED light to the same effect, and because it just means flipping a switch rather than making the - for most people rather dramatic - decision to let off a flare, it's more likely to be used in good time. Under way at night I always have the portable spotlight plugged in and ready in the coaming locker, in case it's needed in a hurry for MOB or anti-collision.

Fortunately I haven't used it for either - so far my deck lights have sufficed rather than needing to blast a searchlight into their bridge windows. They're a pair of LED car headlights under the spreaders, and they light up the whole boat brilliantly from stem to stern making it very clear that "hey dumbass, there's a yacht here!" So far both times I've flicked them on have resulted in an immediate course change from the large mobo heading straight for our nav lights

Pete

As mentioned earlier, white handheld or para & you lose night vision, so useless for rescue purposes imo, a good torch is better although they shouldn't have gone mob in the first place.

 

[Sharky34]

In Portugal where we're based, flares are mandatory. Electronic ones not recognised.

Even if not mandatory, I would continue carrying flares, best chance to be seen from shore or nearby boats.

Do they come with mandatory leather gauntlets?

 

[Praxinoscope]

We carry a tar barrel and a small cannon. Neither of which have an expiry date.

I did wonder about installing an 81mm Mortar on the foredeck, it could serve several purposes, but SWMBO wasn't too keen.

 

[prv]

a good torch is better

Yes, that was largely the point of my post ?

white handheld or para & you lose night vision,

Close one eye while the light’s on. Seriously, it does work.

(Maybe not on a hand flare three feet from your face, but as I already said, white hand flares are largely pointless nowadays)

they shouldn't have gone mob in the first place.

Of course! We could eliminate all these tedious emergency-equipment threads, just by reminding people not to have accidents!

Pete

 

[[163233]]

In Portugal where we're based, flares are mandatory. Electronic ones not recognised.

What spec does a flare actually have to comply with?

 

[Laser310]

Does HMCG or RNLI publish any numbers indicating, by percentage, what types of distress signals are used in incidents to which they respond.., and how they themselves are first alerted to the distress?

I guess it would be best if the numbers were restricted to incidents of actual, rather than imagined, distress.., as in: "hello.., i've been watching this windsurfer, and he fell off the board..."

 

[Poignard]

Flares threads are a hardy perennial here and belong in the same category as anchor threads.

'
When they start banging on about blunders committed by people with blue ensigns and Breton caps, we'll know everything's back to normal,

 

[[70521]]

The OP was about coastal sailing. I should have said a DSC radio with AIS as contacting a ship is easy.

Indeed, and I sail in the waters that he is based in, but there is also a planned trip to France as he gets more experienced. Being Plymouth based its approximately 100 nm for me. We also cross a busy shipping lane and both UK and EU fishing vessels which do all sorts of interesting maneuvers.

 

[Kukri]

I think the risk of using flares is over stated. One accident (to Duncan Kent, iirc) from a defective hand held white,and we have a mass panic and the electronic gadget industry pile in.

The light given out by even a very powerful torch is a tiny fraction of the light given out by a magnesium white flare.

Back in the days when we were actually encouraged to set off old hand held flares* on Bonfire Night (yes, we were, by the Editor of the Yachting Monthly, JD Sleightholme) I used to do so, but being cautious about some really old ones I stuck them in a flower bed. They all worked, and would have been safe in my hand, but the two hand held reds that had been in the bilges were more of a feeble pink colour.

*Not parachute flares. They tend to burn all the way down... which doesn’t matter at sea, but isn’t so clever on land.

 

[duncan99210]

What spec does a flare actually have to comply with?

They have to comply with SOLAS rules, which are outlined here Requirements Regarding PyroTechnics Put Forth by SOLAS.
The current problem with all of the electronic markers is that they don’t comply with the SOLAS rules, because there aren’t any as yet.
I regard the electronic ones as nice to have as an addition for position marking over an extended period. They lack the sheer output of light which pyrotechnics have: you can spot a burning flare in a wave trough even in poor conditions by the amount of light it’s putting out. Conversely, as soon as you’ve got any obstacle between an electronic beacon and the observer, then the you've lost sight of it.
I completely get that some people don’t like pyrotechnics and aren’t happy to have them aboard. That’s fine but I do think you need to see and understand the difference between the light output between them before making a decision. What may appear to be a very bright light when you test a beacon is frankly as nothing when its tested alongside a pyrotechnic. That’s why I prefer to carry both so I’ve got a range of option for signalling, as well as PLBs, AIS Mobs, and DSC radio.

 

[scottie]

From personal experience I would recommend still carrying red flares it worked for me when HH VHF didn’t (6mtr RIB )
and probably orange smoke makes sense for longer burn and wind direction with regards to white flare I suspect that I would be more thankful to have in emergency than wish that I had one
I am sure until we can perfect walking on water the risk of using a flare out ways the risk of not using one

 

[dunedin]

Wouldn't lifejackets come ahead of some of those?
Remember some of us went cross channel with little of all that & actually survived

Didn't list MOB prevention & recovery equipment, as flares not much used for this (but have lifejackets with harnesses, hoods, lights and AIS beacons as well).

Clearly many of us have been on short cross Channel hops and much longer trips without needing to use any of this type of gear. Back in the day the theory was "die like a gentleman" wasn't it?
But my family and crew aren't keen on that approach so some contingency kit s worthwhile.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I did wonder about installing an 81mm Mortar on the foredeck, it could serve several purposes, but SWMBO wasn't too keen.

Go for it - much more fun than flares. We stopped carrying flares years ago.

 

[Refueler]

Good idea if you can find a suitable container that is rapidly opened and weather tight. I wouldn't want to leave them exposed.

My two whites are in plastic pipe clips just inside companionway ...

For those who are still carrying Pyros ...... to reduce the hit on the wallet ... why not replace one at a time so dates are staggered.

To those who say a torch is better than a white flare .............. a torch is directional but a flare is not ... its seen 360 degrees AND its brightness is way higher than any hand held torch. The only downside is that it burns for limited time.

 

[Sharky34]

My two whites are in plastic pipe clips just inside companionway ...

For those who are still carrying Pyros ...... to reduce the hit on the wallet ... why not replace one at a time so dates are staggered.

To those who say a torch is better than a white flare .............. a torch is directional but a flare is not ... its seen 360 degrees AND its brightness is way higher than any hand held torch. The only downside is that it burns for limited time.

But a white flare is for 'collision avoidance', which is never a 360degree situation & as experienced personally, doubt anyone is on 'lookout' to see it.

 

[Mister E]

If you are sailing on the Lake Solent I would have thought that you would need to use a big stick to beat the help away if you used a Flare there.
Ducks and runs for cover.

 

[Graham376]

Do they come with mandatory leather gauntlets?

May be mandatory for you but not necessary.

What spec does a flare actually have to comply with?

Haven't a clue. Try reading what it says on the flare, most likely something like SOLAS approved.

 

[[163233]]

They have to comply with SOLAS rules, which are outlined here Requirements Regarding PyroTechnics Put Forth by SOLAS.

Hand Flare– The hand flare’s minimum requirement as per SOLAS chapter III regulation 25 are;

SOLAS III reg 25 is about muster stations.

 

[goeasy123]

When I took the last of my out of date ones to Lee on Solent CG for disposal a couple of years ago there were several people in the queue and all agreed that they would not be replacing theirs on grounds of cost, danger and availability of better alternatives.

Here, here!!...
If you do a standard 'Risk Probability and Impact Assessment' you will find that if you have VHF, EPRIB, AIS, mobile (or sat phone, offshore) and some form of electrical bright light the total risk of death or injury is increased by having pyrotechnics on board.