What makes a really good or really bad skipper?

[Langrick1]

The person responsible need not necessarily be the skipper. In the example given, of a negligent helmsman who kills four children, I think it is a little far fetched to think he would be able to pass all blame onto someone who was sleeping at the time and whose sole qualification for being skipper is likely to be "could afford to buy boat"

May not be an exact parallel but when Titanic sailed into the iceberg it was Captain Smith held responsible despite being asleep at the time.

Had he not gone down with his ship it would have been him before the court not the helmsman.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe that to be the situation - I may be wrong. What I do know is that if I were the skipper in that situation I would FEEL responsible.

If no-one owned up to being the skipper the first thing would be to look at the log and who made the entries. If that was not completed I suspect some degree of reponsibility would fall upon the owner. In most privately owned yachts they are one and the same.

To go back to begining - the crew are "subordinate" to the skipper in that the skipper is the one making the decisions and the crew execute them. More significantly it is the skipper who is responsible, morally and legally, if things go badly wrong. Even if its the crew at fault, its the skipper who is responsible. This does not need to be a Cptn Bligh situation, as most of my sailing is with SWMBO it could not be. 99.9% of the time it does not matter. We agree where to go, when to go and whether or not to go. On the very very few occasions where things have turned a bit nasty I decide what we are going to do and SWMBO is happy with this. Usually.

Its situations where a "single controlling mind" is essential, and "controlling" is the critical word in any emergency.

 

[Robert Wilson]

A really good skipper is one who can take criticism without taking umbrage - I sail single-handed and have learnt to be totally tolerant of all criticism I make of the skipper!

 

[Langrick1]

On a private, non-commercial pleasure boat? If anyone, the crew member. "Skipper" sounds awful good, but has no legal significance. Oh, and while we are at it, the log of a yacht is no more "a legal document" than my diary.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-really-bad-skipper/page6#7uKaPgAWG9XorQYX.99

Nonsense

ANY document can be a "legal document" in that it can be presented as evidence in a court.

A suicide note - if one exists - will almost invariably be presented as evidence at an inquest.

I have seen hand written notes on a sheet of notepaper presented as evidence.

If either party in a case chose to they could present the log as evidence to support their case.

 

[lpdsn]

May not be an exact parallel but when Titanic sailed into the iceberg it was Captain Smith held responsible despite being asleep at the time.

On the other hand, it was the 2nd officer OOW on the Pride of Bilbao who was prosecuted, not the master who was asleep below. I guess part of the blame in the Titanic case was that the Captain didn't leave instructions to proceed at a slower speed because of the iceberg reports.

 

[lpdsn]

On a private, non-commercial pleasure boat ... "Skipper" sounds awful good, but has no legal significance.

I think what you're trying to say is they have no legal authority. You may be right, but certainly on a larger private boat it is often necessary for the crew to perform a co-ordinated set of tasks in order to ensure the safety of the vessel and crew. In other words, follow orders.

The skipper effectively has to perform a confidence trick on the crew to get them to do what he wants, through a mixture of their assumption that he has authority, strength of personality, self-confidence and the deference most people give, in the absence of an established heirarchy, to someone who has considerable more knowledge and expertise in that particular context. It's easy for a 'bad' skipper to break that spell, whether through character flaws or a lack of experience or competence.

 

[JumbleDuck]

For a small leisure craft there are no legal crewing requirements. However, that does not mean its every man for himself. In fact the opposite is true. Everyone on board has a duty of care commensurate with their experience. From an insurers point of view, they will probably hold a dim view of the owner who failed in his duty of care to the crew by leaving the boat in the hands of a crewman who wasn't capable of managing the situation. The courts would probably hold the same view. So the Helm would carry some responsibility but so would the owner or self declared Skipper.

That's very nicely put. I agree completely.

 

[JumbleDuck]

May not be an exact parallel but when Titanic sailed into the iceberg it was Captain Smith held responsible despite being asleep at the time.

True, but I think that's an illustration of the big difference between a skipper (no qualifications, no formal appointments process) and a captain (the opposite). However, if the skipper had set a course and gone to sleep and a relatively inexperienced crew member followed that course to an accident then I am sure the skipper could be held at least partly to blame.

What I do know is that if I were the skipper in that situation I would FEEL responsible.

Me too. I'd feel guilty about having given the numpty helmsman responsibility beyond his abilities, even if I didn't realise it at the time. The moral and legal bucks may stop in different places.

To go back to begining - the crew are "subordinate" to the skipper in that the skipper is the one making the decisions and the crew execute them.

OK, I can go along with that, though I think it should also be recognised that the skipper holds his position only by consent of the crew (ie they can ignore him if his decisions don't look good without fear of legal comeback) and while it's best to have only one decision maker at a time, it's not necessarily the same person throughout a trip. No reason why four people of similar experience chartering shouldn't take days about as the skipper.

When mutual flying in gliders - two solo pilots sharing a two seater - it's always agreed who is to be P1 before takeoff, with P1 flying launch and landing. Two instructors I knew once got this wrong, and managed to fly a complete winch launch and thirty seconds afterwards before realising that neither had their hands on the stick I wonder who would have been liable had they hit someone.

 

[JumbleDuck]

On a private, non-commercial pleasure boat? If anyone, the crew member. "Skipper" sounds awful good, but has no legal significance. Oh, and while we are at it, the log of a yacht is no more "a legal document" than my diary.

Nonsense

ANY document can be a "legal document" in that it can be presented as evidence in a court.

That's exactly my point. a yacht's log is no more or less "a legal document" than any other informal piece of paper used as evidence in court. It's not like a will, or a mortgage agreement, or a deed poll, or a power pilot's log book, or a commercial ship's log. There is no obligation to keep a log on a yacht.