What is the safe way to use a bosun’s chair on a mast with a single part halyard?

[sailaboutvic]

No problem if one can perform an adequate risk and mitigation analysis first. But think what this will entail:

1. Someone sits/stands on the windlass remote. Massive forces can be instantly generated. How long has the climber got in such circumstances? Possibly less than a second if he's in a dangerous place.
2. Is the rope drum on the same side as the chain wheel? We've all caught ropes in chain wheels with a central channel.
3. Could a line snarl and jamb itself tight on the windlass drum and then wind itself up in a bit pile which is almost impossible to release?
4. What happens when the climber cries "STOP!"? Panicked humans tend to instinctively pull and snatch something, not release it; it's a natural reaction. That's why some climbing descenders have automatic override brakes should the climber accidentally yank instead of releasing the 'lowering lever' in a fall. The deck crew is no different. Can the windlass be panic protected?

Sort all this and you're to go! But, why not buy a couple of acscenders to take at least some of the strain and have a free core-strength workout on the way up?

acscenders gear good idea , no argument from me , if I was going up and down a lot I would go for it .
Don we both old enough to know a argument can be made out of any thing if we want .
I could answer all tho remark with a good answer ,
Example, 1 no possibility of that as the rope would just slip as I said , if I stood on the ground and she tried to lift me without any help with two turn it would just slip on our drum anyway .
2 chain are in opposite sides of the drum and unless she was working over the windlass it couldn't happen but then if someone is that careless let not use a windlass at all in case their clothing get caught up .
3 NOW this could happen if more then two turns was used but then it would had to happen at the same time as the windlass jamming at full speed , how lightly is that .
Probably as lightly as a cam given up and a rope breaking at the same time .
With the second line in the jammer it would be just a matter of untangle and carrying on .
As far as human error goes that can happen any time , what if when being winched the winch man forget to jammer the rope and get stung by a wasp letting go of the rope .
let not use a winch handle in case it's not inserted right and it fly our and hit me in the head , or let not fly a Kite in case I get my leg caught in a rope .
Better still lets not use a dinghy at night in case I fall in .

We all assess risk to our own capabilities to do what every we doing .
Not to what someone else is capable of doing .

Don just to put your mind to rest , I don't want any one here to lose sleep over this this is done in a very slow and manageable way I not being zoom me up like a rocket but a few feet at a time , no more then being winched up .

 

[rogerthebodger]

When I go up my mast I used a SEAGO bosun's chair which when under tension holds you tight. I have also added a lap strap that locks me in.

My chair is attached to my main sail halyard with a knot locked with the halyard shackle.

I also have an ascender attached that runs up a second tensioned halyard.

I have folding steps and the the main sail halyard goes on to a ST winch on the mast.

I climb the steps while the winch wench keeps tension on me using the ST winch.

Once I an at working level the halyard is cleated off and I have a strap I can tale around the mast as a third safety attachment.

 

[dom]

But I am intrigued - the whole basis of the exercise is that the halyard is considered intrinsically unsafe, hence the safety line. Are there such copious numbers of accidents with halyards, or the attachment of the halyard to the chair, or securement of the halyard at the deck to demand this second halyard - which as the OP implies complicates the whole issue. Climbers use single ropes for climbing, usually, and simply would not consider a second rope. They assume the mate below knows what the procedures are (and often those procedures do not involve any mechanical aids). What is the background to the extra safety on yacht (except that the extra safety is available).

Good point, basically one can and does regularly end-to end-inspect a climbing rope. Halyards by comparison have hidden lengths inside the mast where chafe can occur.

 

[dom]

Don just to put your mind to rest , I don't want any one here to lose sleep over this this is done in a very slow and manageable way I not being zoom me up like a rocket but a few feet at a time , no more then being winched up .

I'm cool, it's just that these threads can be read years later and if that happens they will see you've performed a comprehensive risk and mitigation analysis to keep you safe

And great to see that your windlass is now restored to full health

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'm cool, it's just that these threads can be read years later and if that happens they will see you've performed a comprehensive risk and mitigation analysis to keep you safe

And great to see that your windlass is now restored to full health

Finger cross the breaker hasnt blow so far this year , I have to say it did once trip while I was being haul up the mast last year .
Oh god should has said that it mean I was left hanging while the breaker was we set .

 

[Kukri]

Nobody seems to use the system of securing a 4:1 tackle rove to advantage to the main halyard and hoisting that, belaying it and then pulling yourself up.

Neeves and Sailaboutvic both make good points I think.

Next one - everybody#s favourite task - replacing the bulb in the masthead light...

 

[Graham_Wright]

This is a subject close to my heart. Each year I am required to answer stupid questions about safety on our SBS stand. They are stupid because they are generally of the form "it doesn't seem safe".

That I can't answer. Questions like "what if" I can answer. Our safe practice is based on "what if" both during demos and on our boat.

I wear a fall arrest harness. This is attached to a short line with an "Ascendeur" on the end secured with a figure of eight stopper with a long tail. The harness end is attached with a fisherman's bend also with a stopper. I clip the ascender onto my static line. It precedes me and follows me down. It is not detached until I am on the deck.

My chair has crutch straps, shoulder straps and a chest strap. The lifting webbing is doubled up and through bolted to the hard seat. It is attached to the halyard with a fisherman's bend (main, trysail or topping lift as appropriate). All these pass inside the mast, through a clutch and onto a self-tailing winch on the mast. On the winch is my wife (who has probably tended ascents more than any other woman on earth!). She wears a hard hat and we have PMR comms.

I have a static line which is hauled up by a halyard and carries a device I rest my feet on which I am not allowed to mention and which provides all the climbing effort.

(At 78, I can still reach the top of my 42' mast in less than 2 minutes and my wife exerts herself not at all.)

Now the what-ifs.

During demonstrations, the climber uses the rig I have described. Additionally, he has a back up halyard attached to his harness which I tend.

Three things have to happen for him to fall and hit the deck.

The chair halyard or its attachment to the chair, or the chair itself has to break or be released off the winch. The least improbable of these is the last.
He has to have not secured himself to the static line with the ascender.
The back up halyard on the safety harness has to fail by breakage or by detaching from the harness or by being released off the back up winch.

None of these is impossible but the probability is infinitesimal.

The only real risk is that he becomes trapped at the top of the mast. This can be due to feet entangled in the device which I am not allowed to mention (which is a risk albeit small for those inexperienced and wearing inappropriate footwear) or, much more serious and less improbable, illness. This has never happened in thousands of demonstrations but, if it did, there is a mechanism and a practised routine also applicable on board my boat. The chair halyard can (and is in operation) lowered. So also can the static line with the device I am not allowed to mention and the ascender. This alone is a very good reason not to attach yourself to the mast itself.

We all know about the unfortunate lady who sailed back into port with her dead husband at the masthead. We probably all know about the unfortunate gentleman who fell backwards with feet trapped in hoop style mast steps and eventually died. We all know about the loss of fingers due to entrapment.

In real life, with proper care, climbing a mast should be safe and indeed very few accidents have been reported. Most of those we have heard of have been associated with electric winches.

I apologise for dressing this up as advice. In reality it is a rant against one who can not be named who makes our SBS attendance a nightmare.:ambivalence:

 

[Graham_Wright]

Finger cross the breaker hasnt blow so far this year , I have to say it did once trip while I was being haul up the mast last year .
Oh god should has said that it mean I was left hanging while the breaker was we set .

In most of the stories we have heard, the accidents happened because the breaker didn't trip. There have been several instances where the breaker contacts had welded together and the winch just kept going. Something has to break.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Nobody seems to use the system of securing a 4:1 tackle rove to advantage to the main halyard and hoisting that, belaying it and then pulling yourself up.

Neeves and Sailaboutvic both make good points I think.

Next one - everybody#s favourite task - replacing the bulb in the masthead light...

You need something to stand on to get the masthead at chest height. Just sayin!

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . This alone is a very good reason not to attach yourself to the mast itself. . .

Yours is a good example of a methodology that does allow for an incapacitated climber to be returned to the deck. It's not too hard to come up with alternative arrangements either. But slings around the mast or ascendeurs on static safety lines that can't be released, etc are all examples where this can't be done and therefore carry additional risk.

In the climbing scenario, there are normally two systems - the climber is ascending the rock with no assistance from the rope, which acts entirely as a secondary safety system. In the scenarios where the climbers might 'jumar' (ascend) a single rope on a big wall climb or abseil down the rope(s), then the death rate certainly reflects this reliance on a single method of connection between the climber and the mountain.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Nobody seems to use the system of securing a 4:1 tackle rove to advantage to the main halyard and hoisting that, belaying it and then pulling yourself up.

Neeves and Sailaboutvic both make good points I think.

Next one - everybody#s favourite task - replacing the bulb in the masthead light...

There is a guy in Leucate who does that. He has a schooner with ~60' mast. Frightens the life out of me. No safety at all. Sits on a plank, RN style.

 

[Kukri]

You need something to stand on to get the masthead at chest height. Just sayin!

Yes. You do. The something, in my case (and others may have better ways of going about it) is an old style bosun's chair. And standing on that, with a harness on, clutching at the mast with one hand and faffing about with the fitting with the other is very well up my list of Least Favourite Things to Do On A Boat.

 

[sailaboutvic]

In most of the stories we have heard, the accidents happened because the breaker didn't trip. There have been several instances where the breaker contacts had welded together and the winch just kept going. Something has to break.

Graham I understand what you say , but there no way even if our windlass went on till the batteries die would I go up any further , as I said all that would happen is the rope would keep slipping on the drum , it be another story if it was a ST winch .
It take some pulling on the rope with two turns on the drum to take me up , at times I can hear the motor working and I not moving unless I help take my weight.
Our windlass if a lofrans , nothing special , many about if anyone here has one try it , sit In Your chair and get someone to take two turns around the drum , see how much they would had to put on the line for it not to slip once you have your full weight on it .
NOW if someone who as no idea what they doing puts three four or five turns on the drum and as Dom said the lines get trap at the same time as you said the breakers fused together , yes I can see that would be a problem , but then who of us would put our life in the hand of a idiot who put so many turns on the drum in the first place .
At 78 mate you do very well , I hope I can still get up the mast at that age .
Keep up the good work .

 

[rogerthebodger]

Yes. You do. The something, in my case (and others may have better ways of going about it) is an old style bosun's chair. And standing on that, with a harness on, clutching at the mast with one hand and faffing about with the fitting with the other is very well up my list of Least Favourite Things to Do On A Boat.

Fit 2 folding steps at the top of the mast so your chest/waist is level with the top mounting plate and then tie a line around your waist and the mast so you can work with both hands.

 

[lw395]

Firstly I test the halyard I'm going to use for 'safety' by winching it to a tension of more than my weight.
I have ascenders and a home-made footstep. So I go up using my leg power, while second person tends the safety line.
I use a climbing rope hauled to the masthead, because ascenders are too viscious on yachty ropes.
It is a long time since I've been up a mast with less than two masthead halyards, I'd probably prusik for a safety line on the top section.

The second person lowers me while I tend ascenders alternately.
I use a climbin harness. Plank-style bosun's chairs are only any good for hull cleaning or similar IMHO. The nappy style bosun's chair is better but only as something to sit in passively. I'd only use one in the absense of my climbing kit and the presence of sufficient gorillas to haul me up.

OTOH, while racing, I've been a fair way up with no gear at all, to re-rig a kite halyard mid race on a smaller boat. I was a bit younger then.

 

[Daydream believer]

42 years ago I was at the top of the mast of my Stella with a wooden plank hoisted on a 4:1 tackle. The plank was a piece of block board because that was all I had at the time & it was an emergency. Fortunatelly I passed the rope holding the plank under the plank as in the picture detailed earlier because when i was at the top it broke & i fell into the rope loop. The 2 bits of wood nipped my rear end & i was screaming in pain. The bruise was really large. It was so bad that when I played 5 a side cricket for round table 3 weeks later I had to have a runner as I could not run up the pitch.
To make matters worse the umpires were 2 ladies from ladies circle of another area who did not believe me. So before I was allowed the runner i had to show them the bruise first to prove that I had really hurt myself-- Ex Round tables will know the grief I went through in the middle of the pitch

Earlier this year I fitted a new wind indicator to the mast of my Hanse. As it was at the top & the topping lift is only 6mm I did not have a spare halyard ( not a masthead rig). But no problem because the breaking strain of my 8mm dynema halyard is 4.5Tonnes so just one halyard is enough
From the picture you might be able to guess what I drilled through when I drilled the screw holes for the fitting!!!!!
Moral of the story -- Yup- you do need a spare halyard

To make matters worse the new dynema halyard cost me 200 sobs

 

[Simondjuk]

All this dangling from strings backed up by strings backed up by a string in the hands of an easily distracted assistant on deck who looks after the string that backs up the string that backs up the string makes me nervous. Just free climb the bugger those many points of potential failure that those who worry about such things will worry about all of cease to exist. Take a strop if you'll need both hands when you get there.

I'm fairly sure space walks have taken place employing fewer pieces of equipment than some have described using to scale a short stick here.

 

[sailaboutvic]

All this dangling from strings backed up by strings backed up by a string in the hands of an easily distracted assistant on deck who looks after the string that backs up the string that backs up the string makes me nervous. Just free climb the bugger those many points of potential failure that those who worry about such things will worry about all of cease to exist. Take a strop if you'll need both hands when you get there.

I'm fairly sure space walks have taken place employing fewer pieces of equipment than some have described using to scale a short stick here.

We knew a French guy JP who did work on a few yacht in Ragusa some years back and wouldn't use a chain , he just climbed up the mast and once on he got to here who wanted to be just use a strop , in very good English he say ,
I only put my life in my own hands .
Off cause most of as just not capable of climbing without help . Well I couldn't any way .

 

[sailaboutvic]

42 years ago I was at the top of the mast of my Stella with a wooden plank hoisted on a 4:1 tackle. The plank was a piece of block board because that was all I had at the time & it was an emergency. Fortunatelly I passed the rope holding the plank under the plank as in the picture detailed earlier because when i was at the top it broke & i fell into the rope loop. The 2 bits of wood nipped my rear end & i was screaming in pain. The bruise was really large. It was so bad that when I played 5 a side cricket for round table 3 weeks later I had to have a runner as I could not run up the pitch.
To make matters worse the umpires were 2 ladies from ladies circle of another area who did not believe me. So before I was allowed the runner i had to show them the bruise first to prove that I had really hurt myself-- Ex Round tables will know the grief I went through in the middle of the pitch

Earlier this year I fitted a new wind indicator to the mast of my Hanse. As it was at the top & the topping lift is only 6mm I did not have a spare halyard ( not a masthead rig). But no problem because the breaking strain of my 8mm dynema halyard is 4.5Tonnes so just one halyard is enough
From the picture you might be able to guess what I drilled through when I drilled the screw holes for the fitting!!!!!
Moral of the story -- Yup- you do need a spare halyardView attachment 72230

To make matters worse the new dynema halyard cost me 200 sobs

Daydreamer any chance for five number which I can use to play the lotto this week please ,
you must have be very lucky man , to still be around to tell that story .

 

[lw395]

All this dangling from strings backed up by strings backed up by a string in the hands of an easily distracted assistant on deck who looks after the string that backs up the string that backs up the string makes me nervous. Just free climb the bugger those many points of potential failure that those who worry about such things will worry about all of cease to exist. Take a strop if you'll need both hands when you get there.

I'm fairly sure space walks have taken place employing fewer pieces of equipment than some have described using to scale a short stick here.

Yes, well, space walks are mostly about the absense of gravity. Hence you don't need ladders and stuff.
I think a lot of people on this forum are too old to free climb the boom let alone the mast?

Like most other activities on a yacht, the presence of the right people helps.