What if you had to pay for it?

[Guest]

Got a bit of a shock the other day when I came home after a few weeks absence from the PC to discover my Internet access had been blocked. On making inquiries to the ISP, I was informed that after 2 years free access I was now expected to pay!

I coughed up the money, but my thoughts then turned to GPS. What if we suddenly had to pay for the service? A few scenarios:

What service plan to use? Casual User with only 5 fixes per day, or Super user with 20+ fixes per day?

What happens if your subscription expires in mid passage? Trying to locate a port entrance on a dark and dirty night and the GPS stops functioning - failed to top up the account!

However, when you get the bill all the waypoints will have been recorded and you will have an everlasting record of your voyages, or alternatively, how abismal your navigation has been!

 

[Guest]

Those of us with more grey, or bald in our hair, can well remember the early days of Decca. That was, I think, a subscription service. The early receivers were beyond my pocket and too big for my 22 foot craft.
Do not forget that Our Colonial Cousins retain the power to turn off or degrade GPS signals just as you are searching for the entrance to a harbour in thick and dirty weather. It will be absolutely no use telling them that your account is paid up/ cheque is in the post.
I am keeping my paper charts up to date, while enjoying the wonderful reassurance that GPS can provide.

 

[Guest]

I'm from the GPS genaration but just remember and many years people went to sea without one.

It's like wodden boats...i often hear people say...that mast doesn't look very strong or i wouldn't trust a wodden mast....well how many wodden boast have been built over time..?

if we lost GPS tomorrow..all that would happen is the low skilled sailing would have to stick to the coast but the higher skilled sailing could venture further...but not as fast.

I'm all for turning the bloddy thing off...long live the revoloution..!!!

 

[tonyleigh]

As with weather and tidal information there is a safety dimension here. Taxpayers' money funds these facilities and the "added" cost when they are accessed by others than the prime benefitter (MOD or US equivalent in each cae I believe) is minimal if anything.
I would not sympathise with the civil servant who places a life in jeopardy by withholding information for purely "added income" reasons because that user does not meet the mythical high standards desired! Proof the water world is as full of incompetents as anywhere else is available any w/e.
Where technology can provide and disseminate safety information it should. Whether some sailors should demonstrate a higher skill in traditional navigation is another question altogether.

 

[chas]

Chalk and cheese. I cannot see how they could achieve a reliable payment method. If they tried, I would expect to see these pages full of hints on how to short out the charging mechanism so that free service could be resumed. Who knows, the pre charge GPSes may rise in value!

 

[charles_reed]

What if GPS stopped

A very real risk - we've only got free access to it thanks to Uncle Sam's generosity.

I was sailing in Cardigan Bay when they were carrying out the GPS jamming trials from the range at Aberdaron and I can assure you they were successful - the GPS just went haywire and was nearly as little use as Decca.

The danger is that GPS allows us to kid ourselves that we can navigate.
The truth is navigation is an holistic craft - and GPS is just another aid to good navigation, just as chronometers were when they came into use.

About 18 months ago we had a long thread, on this board, about this very subject with a number of useful comments by members of the Royal Institute of Navigation.

However we all came to the conclusion that we'd probably be able to unpack the sextant, but not able to find the sight-reduction tables - GPS has, by its very accuracy, made itself indispensable.
I still don't rely on it solely though - have three separate position fixing systems running and believe the two that are most closely in agreement.

 

[brianhumber]

Re: What if GPS stopped

I do not see what the fuss is about. I managed to trundle around the Channel without RDF, Decca or GPS before and still found Alderney etc etc, so if they blacked us out, I would simply chuck the boxes overboard and carry on as normal with traditional methods.

 

[roger]

You may be kidding yourself

There are always lots of reasons why estimating your pos can go wrong.
My compass is only calibrated to 10 degrees and I dont think one can hand steer very accurately over a period of hours.
Tidal streams are not accurately predictable.
water logs are unreliable and not easy to calibrate. Cleaning it after a blockage is likely to change the calibration anyway and I hate trying to clean a log underway.
RDF was a bit of a joke. On a small boat the null was about 30 dgrees wide and in any case most have been switched off.
Frankly I would have a hell of a time navigating in Brittany/Channel Islands without sat nav. Dont forget that lighthouses are being switched off and buoys withdrawn.

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure if you all already know this but just in case i'll carry on.

The US launched the GPS birds into space soem years ago. It works well..but like all things they want better.

Because i work in this area i know a bit about what is going on.

The US is launching a new set of GPS birds that are for their use only..and guess what..they have started to sell the ones that we use.

But wait it gets better...guess who has started buying them up.....Mr gates of Microsoft fame...!!


I know that this has not been in the press much but trust me it is starting to happen.

I will let you all make up your own minds as to Mr Gates intentions...??

 

[AndrewB]

Charging system.

It really isn't difficult to devise a plausible charging system.

1. Simple premium on sale of every GPS set.
2. Key number based annual licence renewal, like much computer software.
3. Annual licence administered like VHF. If this is flouted, part of a compulsory 'safety' licence on all yachts.

1 is unlikely, as it opens the door to 'grey' units. If 2 were used, it would mean modifying GPS receivers. Reception by existing units would be "phased out" after a certain period. 3: bureaucratic yes, but the government is just itching for a good excuse to introduce a yacht licence.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Charging system.

I agree Andrew, if the government want to charge us they will, even if it costs them money as the VHF licence does! If bill gates gets his hands on it as thought, he will just put a very nasty selective availability on it, where you have to buy an extra decoder from him, is the monoplies commision listening to this? Its very easy to get somebody to pay you money, you dont have to look very far, think about MDL etc. Most people now wouldnt give it any thought they would just cough up. Read the thread on one of the forums, "rip off Britain"

 

[Guest]

If GPS goes off boats might get safer. Sounds nuts but if you look at progress in all outdoor sports over last 50 years as technology has made access easier people get into potentially more difficult situations with less experience. Use to take years before people had the confidence to cross the channel, now how long?

Roly, Voya Con Dios, Glasson, Lancaster

 

[ccscott49]

Utter rubbish! Trying to keep it exclusive are you!

 

[Guest]

Sorry Pal - I agree with Roland !

Having been trained many moons ago to navigate without Satelites etc. I am appaled by some of the crap seen / heard and expounded !!!!
How many times does the SMG / VMG / VOG / VTW etc. etc. debate / question come up. And the point about cross-channel is very valid .... GPS has opened up a world that many didn't enter before ..... now it seems to be regarded as old hat !!!!

 

[Bergman]

The Americans have already tried this tack back in the 1980s. The wanted to charge the RAF and other NATO forces for the use of the "military standard".

The RAF being, as usual, impoverished declined to pay. The thought being that even the "civilian standard" was a sight more accurate than they could achieve with the methods they had available then.

I suspect the fact that they turned SA off was simply that no-one was prepared to pay extra for the extra degre of accuracy.

I don't really see what they have to gain by upgrading the system. They seem able to fly cruise missiles into whatever they want now.

If they do find a way of charging I would not like it but thinking about it you are at least getting something for your money, the system must have cost billions. Unlike the VHF license where you are charged for a piece of paper which sya you can use that which is freely available, does not belong to the government and has not been created by any investment. Furthermore if you do manage to evade payment for using GPS you are only liable to civil action using a VHF without the bit of paper makes you a criminal.

 

[Guest]

Galileo

Is it not about time you wrote to your E MP and asked what is holding up the European GPS system known as Galileo!

Actually GPS is very easy to jam being below the noise level, some especially American active television aerials will jam it out. You could always will self an anti-jamming aerial!

-{)>

 

[Guest]

Tend to agree with you about technology making access to dangerous environments easier for the less experienced.

Take for example Mt. Everest. I'm sure that the advances in mountaineering equipment and clothing, and easier access, have made the mountain more accessible to people with little or no high altitude mountaineering experience (at a price of course!). As a consequence tragedies will occur, as for example when nine climbers and clients died during a commercial ascent in 1996.

I'm definately not against technology for making our pastimes safer and more comfortable, but unfortunately it does not come with bells and whistles to indicate you have sudenly stepped from safety into the danger zone.