What does your harbour master do for you?

[fireball]

There have been quite a few negative comments made about the value of harbour masters - well the harbour offices in general anyway .... what exactly do we pay our harbour fees for?

Well - part of what Chi harbour get up to can be seen here:
http://www.conservancy.co.uk/water/patrol_diary.asp?month=5

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I have tried for two years to find out what Caernarfon Habour Trust does, especially with all the money it collects. In 1998 the Department of Transport publish a consultation paper which states here:

<span style="color:blue">" 18. By statute all non fishery trust ports are required to deliver their annual accounts to the Secretary of State. Only in some cases do statutes also require trust ports to publish them. In the interests of greater accountability it is proposed that all trust ports should, in future, publish their accounts. It is also proposed that trust ports with an annual turnover of over £100,000 (1998/9 figures) should deliver and publish their plans, as outlined above, for evaluation in conjunction with their accounts by the end of 1999. These plans would be expected to map out a viable and realistically time tabled programme for bringing all trusts to a position where they can demonstrate accountability and fitness for purpose and ability to fulfil their potential in support of the Government's economic and transport agenda. The Government sees compliance with these proposals as an important indicator, by trust ports, of commitment to the improvements it believes are required. It will publicly identify any which fail to do so." </span>

The entire paper can be read here

So far CHT has refused to reply to my requests for their accounts.

I also want to know:

1. Who are the board members and how were they chosen.
2. What is their attendance record.
3. Why CHT has one of the highest charges in the UK when they have relatively few marks, lights and buoys to maintain.
4. Why there is no representative from my marina on the board, despite us contributing at least a third of the all the harbour dues collected.
5. Why they collect harbour dues from boats that sit in a fresh water dock that is shown to be clearly outside their own declared harbour boundary.

I have many other questions for them.

At least with Chichester harbour trust I would only be charged £38.25 a year for dues, whereas with CHT I paid £106 last year.

I think that £38.25 is a bargain and £106 is disgraceful.

 

[BrendanS]

Have you tried applying for this information under freedom of information act. Don't know if it applies to harbour trusts, but you can apply direct to secretary of state for a copy of their accounts at least.

Caernarfon harbour trust website is unavailable, so can't do any research on them via that route

 

[Scillypete]

Precious little, their main purpose here is to make more profit for Big ears. Prices currently going through the roof, why visitors consistently pay over the odds to stay on a mooring bouy when there are perfectly good anchorages is difficult to understand as well.
I could go on but it won't achieve anything.

 

[fireball]

As suggested above - Freedom of Information act is probably your best route.

I've heard of one person who "threatened" the local council with a legal action citing the FoI act unless they provided the information - I believe the letter was sent to the relevant dept as a "I've sent this to my lawyers .... ". The information came out pretty quick!!

 

[maxi]

On the Hamble, a once efficient HM's office and staff afloat, is now a laughing stock. Hugely ineffective, hugely ineffective and with a CCTV system that simply does absolutely nothing but costs berthholders tens of thousands each year.

Suspect that the grubby hand of Hampshire County Council has contributed to this apalling malaise.

 

[Cobra]

Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

We on the other hand at Brightlingsea on the East Coast have an absolutely BRILLIANT Harbourmaster and harbour team.

1) Visitors are ALWAYS found a berth no matter how busy the harbour is.
2) If the excellent water taxi service is not running, then the harbour team will always provide a pick up and drop off service.
3) Regular patrols of the harbour making certain that all boats are always safe and secure in their berths.
4) Regular patroling of the harbour area to ensure that the infernal PWC's and powerboats are kept in check and keep to the speed limits.
5) Swinging moorings serviced annually, pontoon moorings properly maintained.
6) Often meeting visitors constrained by draught in the fairway and guiding them in through the channel to their berth.

Do you want me to go on?

I am certain that other Brightlingsea Harbour users and visitors (both occassional and regular) would agree that Bernie and his team really do go the extra mile and provide us all with excellent value for money!

 

[ChrisE]

I'll join Endymion and say what good job the HMs at Keyhaven do, a similar job to the guys at Brightlingsea do by the sound of it. There aren't any official visitors moorings in Keyhaven but if berth holders are away then they'll try and fit you in. And they daily post 365 days a year the tides and weather forecast outside their hut. This year's April 1 forecast was a belter with a forecast of 24C, balmy winds and don't forget the sunscreen....

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I did find this which answers the question why the marina is not represented wehn reading section 5.

I did find out that the CHT maintains 53 Navigational Aids for my £106. How many Navigational Aids does Chichester maintain for the £38.25?

 

[fireball]

Erm ... when you say Navigational Aids is there a definition? ... there are more than 53 posts in the channel we moor in alone ... the number of large posts and nav buoys is probably comparable though.

 

[fireball]

Ah - but under section 7 could they not co-opt from the marina assoc?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah - but under section 7 could they not co-opt from the marina assoc?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

I couldn't possibly even begin to speculate who holds the co-opted posts, but I do know that a suggested representative from the marina was refused a place on the board – this was before I arrived on the scene.

I have searched the Chichester site but there is no reference to how many marks they maintain. I do remember that when I researched this last year I found a reference to some 350 marks.

Chichester also collects dues from casual visitors, whereas Caernarfon only collects dues from boats permanently 'parked' in their area of responsibility, which is why I have asked the trust why they charge for boats parked in the freshwater dock, which is shown on the trust’s own charts as outside their patch. I should point that mine is in the outer harbour on salt water, so I am not grinding the axe for my own benefit. I just want to know why they are allegedly exceeding their charter remit.

Their website has been ‘down’ for some time now, but even then it was only a few pages long.

Chichester’s site is very informative and offers many points of contact. The only contact I get form Caernarfon is when I delay payment of my dues and they send a solicitors letter, which hopefully accounts for £40 of the £106 they take off me. I do that every year and will continue to do so until they answer my questions satisfactorily.

I tried to get other owners to delay payment, but most are after a quiet life……..

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

Not a South Coast problem, Cowes do a good job on the whole and I would say from my experience of Lymington they are equally as good as the one you quote.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

The Yarmouth IOW set-up always seems pretty smart to me, as a visitor.

 

[Cobra]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

Ah! But the East Coast is a MUCH friendlier place to sail /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

Nah, it's full of mud covered carrot crunchers, unlike the sophisticated sourf coast...

 

[jimbouy]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

Buster in Ryde is a top man... more so when he has time to chat and you can really get to know him.

Not so sure about his new deputy yet.....

Jim

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Obviously a problem on the South Coast!

[ QUOTE ]
Ah! But the East Coast is a MUCH friendlier place to sail /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
How would you know, you are always saying that you never see anyone else when you are out sailing. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif They just sound plain anti social to me.......

 

[Cobra]

Simple answer!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah! But the East Coast is a MUCH friendlier place to sail /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
How would you know, you are always saying that you never see anyone else when you are out sailing. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif They just sound plain anti social to me.......

[/ QUOTE ]
The East Coast is not crowded, so fair comment you do not see many people out on the water. It is fair to say that we do not see vast flotillas struggling for sea room as they all leave their marinas in the morning, and we do not see the same pack all scrummaging to get back in again in the evenings.

What we do see is pleasant open vistas with a few others enjoying the open seascape. We see boats leaving their swinging moorings (yes we still have swinging moorings over here!) on a Saturday morning, knowing that there is a fair chance someone will 'borrow' their mooring overnight...but it will not be a problem because they will be 'borrowing' someone elses!

What we also see are clusters of seals on the offshore sands, we see Thames Barges sailing proudly 'up Swin', we see smiling faces.

What we don't get are interminable calls on Channel 16 for radio checks from the Coastguard, we don't get never ending debates about colregs, we don't get S**msail (are we allowed to say that now?) with their zero to hero YM courses.

We do get friendly waterside pubs where you DON'T have to put up with the thump of kiddie music or the rattle of slot machines, we do get marinas where you can radio ahead at 17.00 on a busy Saturday afternoon and STILL get a berth...oh did I mention, we also do have quite a lot of rather smelly and VERY sticky mud around the shoreline which for some reason or other does seem to put some people off...shame innit! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Re: Simple answer!

Sounds good to me but why would you want to tell all , we'll be inundated with boats from the deep sarf all coming to look and realising it's actually quite nice round here . Maybe it's time to add a few bad things about the East , like , er , um , nope , can't think of any /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif