Victron Multiplus up and running, but... With a few BUTs!

[MapisM]

There are ways you can automatically do some of that, such as split the system into high current devices and low current devices

Yep, I was aware of the possibility to split AC high and low loads, using AC-1 OUT (which is also inverter powered) and AC-2 OUT (which just passes through AC shore power, if and when present).
And in principle I would have liked to exploit that, but I should have routed an additional pair of sizeable wires from the lazarette astern, through the e/r, and eventually to the general electrical panel amidship. On top of that, existing tubes are already full enough to make snaking additional cables inside them optimistic to say the least.
So, considering that it would have been just a nice to have, I followed the KIS principle!

So that confirms our suspicions, you do need the MK3 device. I would say it's well worth having.

Interesting to have a confirmation, thanks again!
I guess I'll byte the bullet and buy an MK3 interface, also because it's not a huge bullet anyway.
That said, using instead Victron Connect on the mobile and install a bluetooth VE Bus Smart Dongle on the Multiplus wouldn't allow also the firmware upgrade, or would it? Interestingly, when I use Victron Connect to "see" the Smart Shunt, among other screens there is one suggesting that it can be used also for firmware upgrades - with the Smart Shunt, at least (see below).
That would be a much more convenient alternative to the MK3 interface, because for "ordinary" system monitoring it's obviously easier and quicker to use the smartphone rather than turn the notebook on and physically connect it to the Multiplus...

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yep, I was aware of the possibility to split AC high and low loads, using AC-1 OUT (which is also inverter powered) and AC-2 OUT (which just passes through AC shore power, if and when present).
And in principle I would have liked to exploit that, but I should have routed an additional pair of sizeable wires from the lazarette astern, through the e/r, and eventually to the general electrical panel amidship. On top of that, existing tubes are already full enough to make snaking additional cables inside them optimistic to say the least.
So, considering that it would have been just a nice to have, I followed the KIS principle!


Interesting to have a confirmation, thanks again!
I guess I'll byte the bullet and buy an MK3 interface, also because it's not a huge bullet anyway.
That said, using instead Victron Connect on the mobile and install a bluetooth VE Bus Smart Dongle on the Multiplus wouldn't allow also the firmware upgrade, or would it? Interestingly, when I use Victron Connect to "see" the Smart Shunt, among other screens there is one suggesting that it can be used also for firmware upgrades - with the Smart Shunt, at least (see below).
That would be a much more convenient alternative to the MK3 interface, because for "ordinary" system monitoring it's obviously easier and quicker to use the smartphone rather than turn the notebook on and physically connect it to the Multiplus...

Never used the Bluetooth dongle with a Multplus, but the following suggest it should work:

9. Firmware updates

https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...ct_Bluetooth_Smart_dongle_-_Manual-pdf-en.pdf

You may have noticed already that Victron documentation can go around and around. The different interfaces and software do the same. There seems to be something missing from each piece of software, so you need 2 or 3 to get full functionality. Luckily for you, you only want basic services, so i think Victron Connect would be your best bet, whether you use it on your mobile or via the MK3 (as you say, the dongle would be most convenient if it works OK.

 

[MapisM]

You may have noticed already that Victron documentation can go around and around.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that by now!

But actually, I was referring to another BT dongle, the one that relies on an RJ45 cable for connection, as opposed to the so-called "VE direct" connector of the dongle in your link - which BTW I don't think even exists on my Multiplus, where there are two RJ45 sockets instead.
Anyway, this is the dongle I was referring to:
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa..._Dongle/106441-VE_Bus_Smart_Dongle-pdf-en.pdf

And while looking for "firmware" on this manual, I noticed that they do mention the update, but only for the firmware of the dongle itself, not of the unit the dongle is connected to.
Rather the opposite, in fact: at page 1, there's the following highlighted paragraph:

Note that the dongle cannot be used to configure an inverter/charger.​

It is also not possible to update the firmware of an inverter/charger via the dongle.​

Read the VictronConnect VE.Bus manual for more specific information on configuring and updating the firmware of an inverter/charger.​

So, in a nutshell, it seems that the BT dongle would be fine for monitoring the Multiplus, but not for upgrading its firmware, which can only be done via MK3 interface. Mmm.... It's not like buying both would break the bank, but it's annoying for sure, just as a matter of principle!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yeah, I'm well aware of that by now!

But actually, I was referring to another BT dongle, the one that relies on an RJ45 cable for connection, as opposed to the so-called "VE direct" connector of the dongle in your link - which BTW I don't think even exists on my Multiplus, where there are two RJ45 sockets instead.
Anyway, this is the dongle I was referring to:
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa..._Dongle/106441-VE_Bus_Smart_Dongle-pdf-en.pdf

My bad, of course there are no VE-Direct ports on the multi. Just been working with mine with Cerbo GX, which is where the VE-Direct ports are on my setup. Been back and forth with VE-Config and Victron Connect on a laptop as well as a Cerbo GX and a Touch 70, plus the VRM portal, different stuff all over the place.

And while looking for "firmware" on this manual, I noticed that they do mention the update, but only for the firmware of the dongle itself, not of the unit the dongle is connected to.
Rather the opposite, in fact: at page 1, there's the following highlighted paragraph:

Note that the dongle cannot be used to configure an inverter/charger.​

It is also not possible to update the firmware of an inverter/charger via the dongle.​

Read the VictronConnect VE.Bus manual for more specific information on configuring and updating the firmware of an inverter/charger.​

So, in a nutshell, it seems that the BT dongle would be fine for monitoring the Multiplus, but not for upgrading its firmware, which can only be done via MK3 interface. Mmm.... It's not like buying both would break the bank, but it's annoying for sure, just as a matter of principle!

The Victron Connect manual states:

"Inverter/chargers can be connected to in two ways:

1. Using USB, this requires the MK3-USB, full details here.
2. Wirelessly, over Bluetooth. Requires the VE.Bus Smart dongle accessory. The available functionality is monitoring as well as operation of the product: switching between on/off/charger-only and setting the input current limit. Changing the configuration, as well as firmware updating a VE.Bus product, is not supported."

I agree with your nutshell. Looks like the Bluetooth dongle would be worth having on your phone and the ability to switch from charge only to inverter might be useful too, and the MK3 for configuring it.

 

[MapisM]

Good news/bad news update on this small saga.
I just received the MK3 interface that I bought, and now the program Victron Connect does see the Multiplus.
So, our conclusion that I previously couldn't see it just because I was using the MK2 interface appears correct.
But that's the one and only good news!

The bad news is that Victron Connect still doesn't really handle the unit, because right after founding the Multiplus, it comes up with the following message, and doesn't allow me to do anything at all.

Now, VE Config (which works just fine, as it did also with the MK2 interface) tells me that the software version installed is the following, and I have no idea about how it compares to "version 200" that Victron Connect requires. Maybe it's the last 3 digits, i.e. 137 vs. 200?

Anyway, I tried also VEFlash, as suggested by Victron Connect, and the program as such seems to work just fine.
But it only allows to upgrade the firmware from a downloaded file, which I don't have and I don't know where/how to get - so, I'm stuck!
My understanding was the Victron Connect takes care seamlessly of firmare update, but Victron Connect doesn't work with the current firmware.
A catch 22, sort of!

Bottom line, if anyone can suggest where I can find and download an appropriate firmware upgrade for my Multiplus, I'm all ears.
Just in case it may matter, below is the S/N label.
Thanks in advance!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Maybe an old stock Multiplus to be so far out of date ?

VE Flash instructions here: Updating VE.Bus firmware, using VEFlash [Victron Energy]

Download the firmware here : Victron Energy - Victron Professional

 

[vas]

I think this was the reason I sold my Multiplus and bought a new one so that I can get all systems go and wire it properly to the rest of the Victron kit...
Check how high this firmware can go, maybe as Paul says, old stock, way too old h/w for the new features. I'd asked victron at the time and that was their reply.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I think this was the reason I sold my Multiplus and bought a new one so that I can get all systems go and wire it properly to the rest of the Victron kit...
Check how high this firmware can go, maybe as Paul says, old stock, way too old h/w for the new features. I'd asked victron at the time and that was their reply.

If it's that old and sold as new, a case for return ?

 

[vas]

iirc, MapisM bought it 2 or 3 yrs ago (I was also thinking of getting one) on a Fairline sale very cheap, doubt there's a possibility of returning it.

 

[PaulRainbow]

iirc, MapisM bought it 2 or 3 yrs ago (I was also thinking of getting one) on a Fairline sale very cheap, doubt there's a possibility of returning it.

Ah, post #1 says "I just treated my boat to a Multiplus 24/3000/70." but if it's 2 or 3 years old, as you say, no chance of a refund.

That said, given his limited requirements, it should do everything he wants anyway.

 

[MapisM]

Vas is correct ref. when/how I bought the thing.
I said I "just" treated my boat to it only because I only installed it recently, after leaving it in my garage for years for two good reasons:
First, I always considered it no more than one of several "nice to have" bits - a list that I tend to forget easily, when faced with other options like go boating, wine tastings, fine dinners, etc.
Second, guilty as charged for being lazy - an attitude that for some reason seems to strengthen with age!

And yes, I agree that all considered the unit is fine as it is, for my usage.
It's just annoying, now that I've also bought the MK3 interface, not being able to fully exploit it.
So, I did my best to dig into this "Victron Professional" website that you linked.
And I still am as I'm writing this - also because their user friendliness leaves a helluva lot to be desired, aaarumph!

Anyway, stay tuned, I'll summarize my findings ASAP.
Ideally, also for a cross-check from you guys, before risking to set my boat on fire...

Thanks again, in the meantime!

 

[MapisM]

Ok, soooo... Here's what I think to have understood.

1) the 7-digits "software version" is made of the first 4 digits representing the exact unit model, and the last 3 are for the firmware version. So, it appears that my previous guess that 137 is the FW installed, vs. 200 that Victron Connect requires.

2) among the first 4 digits, the first two represent the microprocessor, which can be either "old" or "new": 19 and 20 identify the old micro (230V and 120V respectively), while 26 and 27 are the new micro (again, for 230V and 120V respectively). Third and fourth digits are for the exact model (12/2000, 24/3000, etc.), but that's not so relevant.

3) so, considering the 1910137 that VE config gives as "software version", the HW code for my unit is 1910, whereas 19 means (unsurprisingly, at this point) that it has an old micro.

4) now, the website PR linked in post #26, among gazillions of other things beyond my pay grade, allows to download a long list of firmwares (.vff files). These files are the last firwmares available for each of the unit models given by the first 4 digits. And they are also separated between "100" and "200" firmwares, whereas the former are those featuring the virtual switch, and the latter feature the assistants. As I understand, it's an "either/or" choice.

5) bottom line, I found both a "100" and a "200" FW that should be good for my 1910xxx unit: the 1910159 and the 1910209.
In both cases, the FW version (159 and 209) is above the 137 installed in my unit, and I could upgrade it to either 159 or 209 depending on whether I wish to use the virtual switch or the assistants. But since I need neither, I'm thinking to upgrade to 1910209, not so much for having the assistants, but simply because Victron Connect seems to require 200+ to work.

Bottom line, I just downloaded both these vff files on my PC, and I'm now calling it a day.
Unless anyone will tell me that I'm missing something, tomorrow I will try to run VE flash, upload 1910209.vff on the unit, and see what happens.
If you think I'm on the right path, wish me luck anyway!
Should you hear of a boat exploded in Sardinia, you will know that I did miss something for good, and you'd better not replicate my attempts...

 

[vas]

As I was reading your last post, I started remembering going through versions of old/new h/w #, trying to figure out why I couldn't connect my old one to the cebro (ok the raspberry pi version of it running VenusOS) and eventually realising that in order to integrate all the kit I had I had to get a newer multi (which I did)
So, I'm not expecting any explosions anytime soon from Sardegna
go ahead!

V.

 

[MapisM]

As I was reading your last post, I started remembering going through versions of old/new h/w #

Do you mean that you tried making some FW upgrade using VE Flash, and you didn't brick anything?
Apparently, that's the tool I should use, while Victron Connect (that should manage FW upgrades in a more self-controlled way, so to speak) doesn't work.

I'm a bit scared by the fact that at Victron they don't seem very confident about their own softwares.
Every other paragraph, they keep saying that FW upgrades are for authorized technicians only, they don't take any responsibility for failures, etc.
But that's only a further incentive to push your luck, for those of us with the "what could possibly go wrong?" attitude...

 

[vas]

sorry, cannot claim that I remember what I did 3-4yrs ago!
whatever tools I used (obvs recommended and downloaded from victron), I didn't brick anything.
Nowadays I go via VRM Portal and I upgrade the firmware on the MPPT and Multi from my office pc or notebook (serious, I just try to make it when I'm at least in the same city as the boat so if anything, I could go there and reboot or do whatever. Mind hadn't needed to do so ever, it just works!)

V.

 

[MapisM]

I did notice, among all the docs I went through, this VRM portal access, but having other fishes to fry I didn't investigate it.
Does it require any paid subscription? And if so, how much?
If FoC (or at least very reasonable), and if it works well (does it?), I may be interested!

 

[vas]

wont work in your case I'm afraid, you'd need a newer h/w multi so that you can wire it using blah blah (don't remember the terminology) the multi to a Gerbo (or similar) device and that then has to be online 24/7. Then all the data go to the Victron free service where you can log in check patterns, graphs, etc.
Good for debugging and monitoring solar production, however, if everything does what you need it to and you're not keen on getting too familiar with the internals of the system, you shouldn't bother.

V.

 

[PaulRainbow]

wont work in your case I'm afraid, you'd need a newer h/w multi so that you can wire it using blah blah (don't remember the terminology) the multi to a Gerbo (or similar) device and that then has to be online 24/7. Then all the data go to the Victron free service where you can log in check patterns, graphs, etc.
Good for debugging and monitoring solar production, however, if everything does what you need it to and you're not keen on getting too familiar with the internals of the system, you shouldn't bother.

V.

For your memory :

Connect the Multi to a Cerbo (or similar) with VE Bus (ethernet cables), then the VRM can be used. I also have a MPPT solar controller and Smartshunt connected to the Cerbo, gives better monitoring and control. Using a GX70 touch locally.

 

[vas]

For your memory :

Connect the Multi to a Cerbo (or similar) with VE Bus (ethernet cables), then the VRM can be used. I also have a MPPT solar controller and Smartshunt connected to the Cerbo, gives better monitoring and control. Using a GX70 touch locally.

Paul, I think, that was the issue with the old firmware multi, couldn't connect it to the Cerbo, RJ45 connector was there on the multi, so physical connection was possible, but no comms out of it due to firmware.
currently with the Multi II I have multi, mppt, bmv connected to VenusOS as well as BMS from the LifePO4 and N2K bus. Using a 7in raspberry pi touch screen onboard to control on off the Multi and monitor anything from talk levels to battery/mppt etc.
Well integrated system but wont work in MapisM case.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul, I think, that was the issue with the old firmware multi, couldn't connect it to the Cerbo, RJ45 connector was there on the multi, so physical connection was possible, but no comms out of it due to firmware.
currently with the Multi II I have multi, mppt, bmv connected to VenusOS as well as BMS from the LifePO4 and N2K bus. Using a 7in raspberry pi touch screen onboard to control on off the Multi and monitor anything from talk levels to battery/mppt etc.
Well integrated system but wont work in MapisM case.

Similar to mine, Multi II (3000/24/70), MPPT, Smartshunt connected to a Cerbo and Touch 70. My Pi, from the previous boat, is in a box at the moment, not had chance to set it up on this boat. I've got tank levels and engine data on the N2K bus via an Actisense EMU1. Recently fitted LifeP04 but the BMS isn't connected to anything else. The whole arrangement, with 870w of solar is working well, will have to do a write-up of it at some point.