What do you think about EU and boating ???????????

[Guest]

We keep hearing so much about the EU cutting into the freedom of boating and the creation of RCD's and other Rules / Regs and Recc'd matters. We also hear that the RYA looks after the boaters and aks for people to join and support the 'lobbying' of EU etc.
My questions are ...... How many think that there should be controls and regulations for our hobby ? What are your views on this and how it affects you ...? How many think we should all join the RYA and 'lobby them' to increase the pressure on their lobby of EU ? How many think that we should continue our nearly 'unique in europe' stance of freedom on the water and damn all EU beureaucrats ! .....

So my thoughts ?? ....... I think limited licencing of standards is not a bad idea, considering some of the fools out there, BUT I do not agree with some thoughts of handing it to 'established sea-schools etc.' as they are commercial and only there for profit. The EU should leave well alone and leave it to the national bodies ... too much interference from EU on too many things ... The RYA is a good body, but like many gets sidetracked away from immediate and most important issues at times. If I joined them I would want to see plain decisive action.

Finally how many out there pay dues / have regular contributions to that wonderful group ..... RNLI .... anyone who doesn't shouldn't be on the water in my opinion ..... go on dip your hand into yer pocket and give to the RNLI .....

 

[iangrant]

and have a holding tank fitted!

 

[Grehan]

10:4 rubber duck

 

[Bergman]

What exactly is "limited licensing of standards"

Licensing either exists or does not exist. It cannot by definition be volutary.

Personally I would oppose ant restrictions that the Eu chose to impose on the freedom of the individual to enjoy the sea.

I am familiar with the arguments about cost of Sand R of people who get themselves into trouble.

Largely these arguments are false since the armed forces would maintain an effective SAR capability for their own purposes which would cost just as much.

The EU does not have role in saving people from themselves. If they did they would ban all motor vehicles, smoking, drinking, hill walking, mountaineering, soccer, rugby, cricket(amazingly) hang gliding, caving, --need I go on. All these passtimes cause more deaths than sailing.

All this movement for licensing has nothing to do with safety. It is a lead in to yet another means of generating revenue for governments. Its all very well to be cautious of sailing schools being profit making organisations, but never forget governments are just as keen to get their hands on your (our) money. The only difference is governments just take it and do nothing in return.

 

[Guest]

Limited .... I was thinking along the terms of 'Basic instruction and Certificate'.
In Estonia here we have a Basic Instruction and LIcence that allows you to use / command a boat, Sail or Power epending on which licence you ask for. It is not difficult, but it really does assist in reducing the number of idiots.

I definitely do not advocate licencing for the sake of it and would be against full scale certification, as some EU proposals have been .....

SAR is another thing .... I advocate all should give something to RNLI, as I consider them truly marvelous and worthy of that few quid in the box. I added it NOT as a part of EU / Control ......

 

[Bergman]

I suppose that would be something like CBT for motorcycle training.

The principle is basically sound I suppose but how could it be enforced.

Would the police have rights to stop and search boats as they left a marina or at sea?

How many civil servants would have to be employed to administer it?

Would a Luxembourg certificate be valid?

Could the Italian police stop a French yacht to check on its certificate?

Would the likes of Robin Knox Johnson have to take the course?

If not how much experience would exempt someone, and how would one prove that experience?

It adds up to a complete nightmare. Furthermore it is a nightmare that can only end in a comprehensive licensing system.

As for the idiots They really are few and far between, a tiny minority. Furthermore there is little evidence that I have seen that they do any real harm other than annoyance.

An ingrowing toenail is an annoyance but please don't cut off your legs to prevent it.

 

[johnsomerhausen]

The Swiss, who are not in the EU (and judging by their response in avrious
referendums, have not intention to join...) have a pretty stiff system of licensing.....
john

 

[Guest]

We are actually very lucky in the 'so called' advanced nations, to be licence free ! But that is only destined to go someday .....

I say that we should pre-empt it by being clever ! Bring in a basic system, without too much BS and stop the Euro-crats from imposing some unworkable, unreasonable piece of eurocracy !

 

[peterb]

EU buzzwords

There are two EU buzzwords which seem to work in opposition: "harmonisation" and "subsidiarity". In theory, things like licensing should depend on the individual country (subsidiarity). In practice, though, the EU bureaucrats (and not just the ones in Brussels) seem to like the idea of everyone following the same rules (harmonisation).

While we are able to avoid licensing, it will be difficult for them to harmonise the rules. Once all (or a majority of) the countries have compulsory licensing, then the yen for harmonisation will come in to play. The trouble is that harmonisation tends to be at the lowest standard, rather than the highest, so we'll end up with a European "Boat Driving Licence" at about the level of the present ICC. And then we'll get the situation we currently have on the roads - 'I've got my legally required qualification - why should I go any further?".

 

[Colinh]

Re: EU buzzwords

Your view is fair enough, but is based on the fact that significant numbers of UK yachties go to night school to learn the basics without being told to.

As far as I can understand the claims and counter-claims, the volentary use of night schools etc results in less accidents than then in countries that force yachties to learn the rules. This is probably the same as the way Brits flash their car headlights at each other, saying 'I have the right of way, but I will let you go first.' We are the only European country where such an unofficial code exists. (The official Highway Code says flashing headlights are a warning.) A lot of Scuttlbut postings are complaints more about discourtesy than the exact following of Col Regs.

I hold the view that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or put another way, there is no need to enforce examinations and licences on a group of people who are doing no great harm to each other. Doing otherwise is a typical incompetent politicians response to one fool, which is make a Law to govern all reasonable people. Fools do not follow Laws, and so it is the reasonable who suffer, and the fools continue in their dangerous folly.

There is no need for Licences (and further Govenment subsidy by way of fees), and we should be left alone to avoid the occasional fool who tries to ram us.

Colin H

 

[Guest]

Rip up the RCD. Its meaningless, money wasting, burocracy thought up by non sailing pen pushers. As for licencing, its the thin end of the wedge,governments will then want to introduce boat tax (for using territorial waters) congestion charging (watch out Hamble berth holders!) compulsory Boat MOTs and the like.

How about a tax on the wind? there's a great thought for Gordon Brown...