What Boat Question

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dave31

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As an Australian living in Switzerland I feel like a fish out of water..but I am going to buy my first boat.... i want to buy something bigger straight away and to skip the smaller size range. Just wanted advice from the board on what to get, I have a budget of 150,000 to 200,000 euro and wanted something that I can anchor in the med and sail the med with my wife and two young kids. I want something easy to handle and unsinkable..I have looked at older steel boats, maybe in time me and the wife will go on a longer 2 year expedition and I want something I can also live aboard...is steel necessarily a prerequisite for long distance / blue water /liveaboard crusing..any advice from the wise members of this board would be welcome.

PS: Looked at some of these big 60ft steel boats--what do you guys think i.e the pros and cons..

i.e like this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/p...=43226&url=
 
Steel is certainly not a prerequisite for long distance cruising - I had a 40ft steel boat - got it as far as the Canaries and then sailed it back to the UK and sold it and got a fibreglass boat - could not stand the slowness, rust, constant maintenance - If you end up on a reef steel will certainly survive better but you still will have huge problems getting it off the reef....
Frankly 60ft is very big - (I know of a master mariner and his wife who sold their 60ft as it was too much of problem parking) marinas become daunting and desperately expensive - There is an awful lot of accommodation in 40 - 45 ft and with bow thrusters it is possible to handle them short handed in confined areas. The vast majority of boats circumnavigating are production boats in GRP.

Lots of folks go for bigger boats first off. Just need time to work out how to sail and more importantly park it. I can see no reason to start off small but 60 ft is big for a couple.......
 
I like cats ..but someone a long time ago told me the snap in half in rough seas..not to mention extra mooring costs due to their width..?
 
With your intended budget you could by a brand new production cruiser around the 40' mark. Look at the Beneteau, Bavaria, Hanse etc. All offer phenomenal value for money, with plenty of accomodation for 4. They are also all easily handled by a couple. If you want traditional blue water designs, boats like the Tayana 37 & 42 would fit the bill, alternatively a Hans Christian 38 or 41 or even a 43 would be superb. The choice is endless but as a piece of general advice, I'd be inclined to limit the size to around 40'. Beyond that and the kit increases in size and weight exponentially with replacement costs to match.

Another extremely well thought of 'blue water cruiser' is the Bowman 40. Superb in every respect with two double cabins, two heads, good sized saloon, galley and chart area and an extremely comfortable and safe cockpit. There are a couple of earlier examples on the market at the moment around the £130000 mark.

Best advise would be to go and look at some. Decide what you like / don't like and draw up a short list from there.

Good luck!
 
It's a bit of a contradiction to say you want something that's easy to handle then ask about 60 foot boats! Small crews can handle big boats, but do you really have the experience to do it? I suspect that, if you need to ask these questions, you should be thinking about something smaller.
 
Would add my approval to that reply, lots of great boats available around the 40/42 foot mark, would in MHO be a mistake to go for something bigger for all the reasons given if it is just the two of you.
Other options to consider is whether you would prefer an aft or centre cockpit. My preference is for the centre cockpit with a roomy aft cabin if you are going to do any long term cruising. Both have advantages and disadvantages but for me the centre cockpit is the best. Would also suggest you go and look at a lot of boats and talk to lots of owners and decide on what would suit both of you best.
Good luck
Mike
 
twister, thanks for the suggestions in relation to the Tayana, and hans christian..they both look like the sort of thing I am after, Angel and Joe...I guess a big aft cabin with a centre cockpit is they way to go ..do you, or anyone else know any boats 40-42 with a centre cockpit and aft configuration?

cheers
Dave
 
"Unsinkable" is going to be a tall order. Sadlers and Etaps aside there are very few yachts that cannot sink; the weight of the keel sees to that.
On your budget I suggest looking at the types of boats the charter companies use in the Med. A decent (modern) second hand 45 footer should fit the budget, offer enough space, and be capable of being handled by a small crew, but will not be a true "blue water" boat. If you want the latter it may not be ideal for cruising in the Med, and your budget will mean settling for an older or smaller boat. Although I would like a blue water yacht, my family circumstances mean that long distance sailing is not on the agenda and I have chosen a 45 foot Jeanneau for Med use. I would suggest that you buy a yacht suitable for your plans for the next few years, then decide if you really want to set off for faraway places. If you still do then you might have to wait until children finish school, by which time you will have all the experience you need to choose the perfect yacht.
 
Norman,

sounds like sound advice, and some of them look pok in side..i.e the benet-ass, jeaneu..someone warned me of bavarias, but i dont know why, he also said I should look out for chartered boats.......anything i need to look out for in fiberglass hulls..arnt they prone to absorbing water..?
 
Dave, All hull types have their problems, GRP can get osmosis (though they do not sink from it), Steel rusts, Aluminium can have electrolysis problems, and ferro-cement boats can be very good, but some amateur builds were not well done and all ferro boats seem to be hard to re-sell (hence cheaper to buy of course).
Where GRP hulls are concerned, you must see the boat out of the water (or have an out of water survey). If osmosis is found either walk away or renegotiate the price. A much more serious issue in my view is to find out if the hull has had any damage repairs. As for ex charter boats, they will be much cheaper than private owner boats because of greater use. The issue is how well looked after has the boat been. I am in process of buying an ex charter yacht, which has been very well maintained indeed, and is well equipped. Only real issue is high engine hours, but at the price I am paying I could replace the engine twice over and still have paid less than for a private owner boat of the same type and age. To return to hull materials, GRP will require less maintenance than steel. There is a lot of prejudice from some quarters against Bavaria, Beneteau & Jeanneau yachts, but it does not alter the fact that between them these three makers sell more yachts in Europe than all others put together. They must be doing something right, and that is that they produce yachts which are very well suited to sailing in the Med, and stand up to the rigours of the charter market. As you live in Switzerland and are not a national of the EU you should be able to have a yacht without paying VAT, and most charter yachts are not VAT paid, which means that the low price will not suffer an instant mark-up in your case. If you do buy a VAT paid yacht it is unlikely you will be able to recover it.
 
Hi. You aren't quite clear whether you want to stay in the Med or your 'two year expedition' is further afield. If you are staying in the Med then a charter type boat (not necessarily one that has been chartered but one designed for that market) might be the way to go. At the risk of opening old sores on this forum - personally for longer distance I would prefer something with a better stern, not so flat a forefoot and other advantages over some of the dufours/ben/jen/bavs that people enjoy in Med sailing.

Of course, you could buy one boat for the Med and trade to something different for living on/going further.

We live on our centre cockpit, aft cabin ketch (angelsson very right) which is a 40' Maxi 120. She has done one circumnavigation (not with us) and is a rugged, seakindly and fairly slow cruising boat. We find her manageable in marinas and at sea (two women on board), but would not go bigger. If we had bigger boat, then bigger gear - particularly sails and anchors. This can be handled with electricity (and indeed we bless our electric windlass every time we anchor) but if the power failed this is the absolute maximum we could manage. This was our defining criterion. Other people differ from this judgement, feeling that with the sailing they're going to do and/or modern reliability this is an unneccessarily cautious position.

Also totally agree with the advice to look around a lot. Take a notebook and write down what you like and don't like. Sail boats plenty, and try to spend time at anchor in some more exposed/bouncy waters to find out what they're like. In your budget allow for kitting out (up to 1/3 cost of the boat - now there's a hook for discussion) incluidng ways of generating power, a trule comprehenisve spares inventory, music, mattresses, liferafts, anchors and chain suitable for long distance cruising ...

And enjoy the looking. We had agreat time.

HTH
 
Norman,

Thanks for your recommendations, the Beneteau 461 or 42 look like the way to go, although I would have preferred to buy something suitable for blue water ,cruising...never thought about the VAT remarks, but it makes the ex-chartered yachts sound very attractive.

Cheers

Dave
 
Sarah and Pips,

Thanks for the remarks..do you know any good spacious, easily handled, blue water boats besides your maxi? preferably with a big aft cabin.

Cheers
Dave
 
stay away from steel. By the time you get to anywhere near coral you will be so sick of the chipping and painting. Why don't you charter various sizes for a week at a time. This will quickly show you what is good and not so good about each brand and how big a boat the 2 of you can handle.
 
Hi Dave
For live aboard and long distance cruising you can't beat a decent sized catamaran. They are safe, good at sea, loads of space below, and up top for those sunny days, shallow drafted and even the cruisers are faster than most racing monohulls
 
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