Westerly Centaur vs Jeanneau Fantasia 27 (Bilge Keel)

[Laurie]

After reading a lot about the French sailboats in the less then 30' class I came to the conclusion to forget them. In the UK there are numerous yards that has build nice to very nice bilge keeler's. My list now looks as follows;

#1. Sarum 28' Cruising XT, an aluminum Bilge Keeler. I have never heard from Sarum but I like a lot what I see and read.
#2. Seamaster 815, Polyester Bilge Keeler. I like the more modern looks and what I found about this boat fits.
#3. Prospect 900, a Van de Stadt design. Polyester Bilge Keeler with a Center Keel. Never heard of and I know nothing about this 3 Keel boat, but again I like what I see.
#4. Westerly Centaur, Still on the list but it has to be a C-Layout.

Any input about the fore mentioned sailboats is more as welcome, as I explained I know nothing about the boats #1., #2. and #3.

Thanks, CeesH

Everyones going to have their pennyworth here..lol! I don't know really if there's a BAD boat, anymore than the perfect boat.., like all things, horses etc..
There used to be recently a STUNNING Prospect 900 at Woodrolfe's of Tollesbury, and they are an interesting design with an excellent pedigree.
The Holman and Pye 815, are cracking boats, fin keel, but the larger 925 variant may be more comfortable. A friend had one, and it always impressed me.
Sarum 28.. (R Tucker of Silouette fame)....I beat one once in a Jag 22.....
Centaurs...sail better, especially in blow, than detractors may have you believe. Can slam a bit with twin keels... Keel roots were a problem but I expect all boats now rectified.

Don't decry French boats though, having not long got a Feeling 286... sails well in a 30 knot breeze, potentially very fast for a 28 footer, and a fantastically roomy layout below...similar to Kelt 850 ( same designer, Giles Vaton) engine under the table in saloon, MASSIVE aft cabin and cockpit locker...blah, blah. zzzzzzz

Possibly also consider..

Jaguar 25 and 27
Trapper 500 and 501
Stag 28 (fabulous)
Beneteau 285 ( twin and lifting keels)
Kelt 8.50, 850, Feeling 29 (all same boat)

As someone else said, don't limit yourself by predjudicing various manufacturers...just look at loads of boats!!

 

[Concerto]

Don't decry French boats though, having not long got a Feeling 286... sails well in a 30 knot breeze, potentially very fast for a 28 footer, and a fantastically roomy layout below...similar to Kelt 850 ( same designer, Giles Vaton) engine under the table in saloon, MASSIVE aft cabin and cockpit locker...blah, blah.

Having owned a Feeling 286 when they were first launched I would not agree. I found building errors including the hull being trimmed too tight for the rolled edge to hold the rivets to fix the hull and deck together. Also found the top of the rudder post was left open with no seal and should have been bonded to the deck.The battery box was bonded with fiberglass mat to a smooth gel surface with no mechnical fixings and it broke free in some rought weather. These were all due to poor workmanship, no doubt others were there that I did not find. Still remember hitting 9.62 knots under full main and 100% jib on a beam reach whilst singlehanded. Certainly a high volume hull, but very lightly built.

 

[dave_gibsea]

I love this term "lightly built" sounds very subjective - not very scientific is it? I assume its not description an engineer would use? where's the maths! - Surely a boat should be built with adequate strenght for the conditions and use it will see? I prefer my sports cars to be light, doesn't mean they aren't strong! So much rubbish talked about French boats - mostly by people who are frequently overtaken by them I would suggest.

 

[richardbrennan]

There's a "C" layout Pembroke on the WOA website for sale; this is the fin keel version of the Centaur and I understand they sail very well. If it has to be a Centaur it might be worth putting an notice in the "Craft Wanted" section of the website. It might just prompt somebody who is considering selling.

 

[Laurie]

Having owned a Feeling 286 when they were first launched I would not agree. I found building errors including the hull being trimmed too tight for the rolled edge to hold the rivets to fix the hull and deck together. Also found the top of the rudder post was left open with no seal and should have been bonded to the deck.The battery box was bonded with fiberglass mat to a smooth gel surface with no mechnical fixings and it broke free in some rought weather. These were all due to poor workmanship, no doubt others were there that I did not find. Still remember hitting 9.62 knots under full main and 100% jib on a beam reach whilst singlehanded. Certainly a high volume hull, but very lightly built.

Strange..... but although you've ignored my caveat, as is of course your privilege, but you've actually agreed with me with reference to the boat design...........lol!

 

[Laurie]

I love this term "lightly built" sounds very subjective - not very scientific is it? I assume its not description an engineer would use? where's the maths! - Surely a boat should be built with adequate strenght for the conditions and use it will see? I prefer my sports cars to be light, doesn't mean they aren't strong! So much rubbish talked about French boats - mostly by people who are frequently overtaken by them I would suggest.

+1, beautifully put!
Also agree with your comments re the sports cars...too true!

 

[langstonelayabout]

There's a "C" layout Pembroke on the WOA website for sale; this is the fin keel version of the Centaur and I understand they sail very well. If it has to be a Centaur it might be worth putting an notice in the "Craft Wanted" section of the website. It might just prompt somebody who is considering selling.

'WOA' is about right. That Pembroke is EUR 11,000+. A stunning amount of money for one of those (I nearly bought one a few years ago)

There was one on ebay a few months ago for £2500... Much, much cheaper than a Centaur.

 

[richardbrennan]

The price does seem on the high side, but as most agree, it is condition that really determines the price on boats of this age. This one seems to have been pretty well refurbished with headlining, windows, upholstery and sails all replaced, and, as all boats are, is open to offers.

 

[Concerto]

Returning to my comments about the Feeling 286. It is a coastal boat to be used in conditions up to force 6, with definitely a bouncy ride in stronger winds. The best way to describe it is it sits on the water rather than in the water, but not as bad a some current AWBs.

Most of my sailing including a lot of offshore racing has been in boats of this size or slightly larger, so my comments also come as a comparison to those boats. Not all of thse have been heavy displacement cruisers, but my yacht before the Feeling was a Hunter Formula One - a 22ft extreme racing boat that was easy to get on the plane, That was light weight, but being kevlar reinforced, very strong. By comparison the Feeling was lightly built and quite flexible, so I did not keep it very long. I could say a great deal more but it would be a thread drift.

 

[andyjcox1]

Hi all, this is an old thread but I find myself about to buy my first sailing boat. I am not new to boating but all my experience is on motor boats.

I want a fairly inexpensive introductory boat, capable staying over night on for a weekend, low draft as it will be based in Poole Harbour and suitable for me improving my sailing skills on.

I have been looking at:

- Centaurs, but the forepeak cabin feels cramped for overnights and very old which may lead to more maintanance
- Hunter horizon 23 and 26 - really like these but 23 feels too small. 26 are top of the budget.
- Jeaneau Fantasia 27 - really like the layout, space and lift keel makes it better for shallow anchorages.

I think at my price point condition may be more important. Any reason to not get one of those. 26-27ft feels about the right size Budget 8k max.

Thanks

 

[footsoldier]

Perhaps you ought to look at the thread "what has happened to the boat market" on PBO. That concerns a boat that might well suit you.

 

[andyjcox1]

Thanks footsoldier, I'll take a look.

 

[Tranona]

Hi all, this is an old thread but I find myself about to buy my first sailing boat. I am not new to boating but all my experience is on motor boats.

I want a fairly inexpensive introductory boat, capable staying over night on for a weekend, low draft as it will be based in Poole Harbour and suitable for me improving my sailing skills on.

I have been looking at:

- Centaurs, but the forepeak cabin feels cramped for overnights and very old which may lead to more maintanance
- Hunter horizon 23 and 26 - really like these but 23 feels too small. 26 are top of the budget.
- Jeaneau Fantasia 27 - really like the layout, space and lift keel makes it better for shallow anchorages.

I think at my price point condition may be more important. Any reason to not get one of those. 26-27ft feels about the right size Budget 8k max.

Thanks

You will see all of those boats in Poole Harbour - and countless more designs/types. However they are rather different styles. The Fantasia and to a lesser extent the Hunters are much more modern and lively boats than the Centaur. I have been based in Poole for 45 years and in reality the shallow draft bit is overrated as is drying out. Up to 1.5m is really no barrier to good sailing around the harbour. Almost all moorings are deep water apart from some of the close inshore ones around Parkstone and Lilliput.

You are right - as a first cruising boat in that price range (+/- 10k) condition is all once your basics in terms of size and accommodation are met, particularly sails and engine if you want to get in a lot of sailing. You can fiddle with updating the rest as you go along.

 

[steveeasy]

Might well be worth looking at the OPs boat in the thread Perhaps you ought to look at the thread "what has happened to the boat market" on PBO. Ticks a lot of boxes with little work required.

Steveeasy

 

[Stemar]

You will see all of those boats in Poole Harbour - and countless more designs/types. However they are rather different styles. The Fantasia and to a lesser extent the Hunters are much more modern and lively boats than the Centaur. I have been based in Poole for 45 years and in reality the shallow draft bit is overrated as is drying out. Up to 1.5m is really no barrier to good sailing around the harbour. Almost all moorings are deep water apart from some of the close inshore ones around Parkstone and Lilliput.

You are right - as a first cruising boat in that price range (+/- 10k) condition is all once your basics in terms of size and accommodation are met, particularly sails and engine if you want to get in a lot of sailing. You can fiddle with updating the rest as you go along.

Big +1.

I'd go and look at lots of different boats and see what feels right. Is performance all-important, or accommodation. How important is a proper head with a door? The ladies tend to be quite keen on that sort of thing

Look for
1 sound hull and keels - most will be, but ...
2. sound mast, sails and rigging - standing rigging preferably no more than 10 years old sails not too baggy. Running rigging (the string) is easily replaced.
3. engine. For me, it's an inboard diesel every time for anything more than a day boat. You want to see it start well from cold - check the exhaust manifold beforehand. Once it's running, the oil warning light should go out promptly you want plenty of water coming out of the exhaust, a good gloop every few seconds at idle is fine. A bit of smoke when cold isn't an issue, but it should go once the engine's warm. A bit of steam on a damp day when working hard isn't an issue as long as there's plenty of water. Also, it should push the boat along nicely. I once bought a boat where the engine passed all the tests, but would do 2 knots flat out. I ended up re-engining. Oh, and the bilge under the engine shouldn't be spotless, and not have more than a drop or two of oil. Too clean means it's just been scrubbed - why?

A tablet with Navionics will take care of navigation and a Nasa depth sounder is cheap enough, so I wouldn't be too worried about electronics

Look with your head, then buy with your heart. A boat that ticks all the boxes, but leaves you cold is the wrong boat. One with a few fixable issues but, as the buyer of our Snapdragon said, "Fits like an old jumper" sounds more like it. Even if there are no issues at all (Ha!), keep some contingency cash, because there's always something.

Good hunting

 

[ianat182]

I suggest you may consider the Westerly Tiger which has similar layout but fin keeled 1.3mtr draft ,faster than the Centaur, and most are also well kept. My own I had for35 years and enjoyed every moment spent with her. Well suited to distance travelling mine had been to Scandinavia France and Spain; (a friend also sailed the Atlantic without an engine fitted) and good in light airs with cruising chute . Mine was fitted with Volvo 2010 engine but would take a Beta 30 if change wanted.
The buyer of mine changed the interior a microwave and several alterations..I renewed the headlining myself and it was quite good and not expensive to buy or fit oneself.; in panels easily replaced individually if necessary. The smaller 23ft Cirrus is almost identical ... Both types are the usual Westerly standard of build
Several Tigers are on Apollo Duck at good prices- cheaper than their sisters.

ianat182