Westerly Centaur electric backup outboard

[kevsbox]

Hi all

On our centaur we have a very reliable Beta 20 which I service every year, but as we all know you never can tell if it will fail. At present we do not have a backup outboard and I do not want a smelly petrol outboard and fuel tank on board so I am thinking electric.
The outboard would only be used should the Beta fail so in such cases it would be sail as close to a safe haven as possible and then motor to the nearest marina.

Our home marina is eay up in Fareham Creek so not sure an electric could take us through the harbour entrance and then all the way home.

My question is has anyone done this on a Centaur sized yacht and if so what size motor did you purchase?

 

[KevinV]

An expensive, thief-magnet backup to a reliable engine which is backup for sails? I would be spending my money elsewhere.

For reference, I've been trying to work out a (relatively) cost-effective way to replace my outboard-in-a-well with electric, but the sums involved are just silly if you want reasonable power/range/ charging

 

[Tranona]

Why do you think you need a back up? Have a look around and you will rarely see a boat your size with one. There are really 2 choices. First is to use your dinghy motor (2 or 3hp). This might give you 2- 3 knots in flat calm, but it is rather impractical as the motor will be so low on the transom as to be almost impossible to reach for the controls. Second is to power it properly which would mean going to something like this nestawayboats.com/shop/epropulsion-navy-electric-outboards/ which will give you 5 knots+. Downside is cost - more than your boat is worth. You could achieve similar performance with a 6hp petrol outboard which new will be about 1/3 of the cost but still require a bracket and unless you have remotes will be awkward to operate as well as difficult to remove so will probably spend all of its life sitting on the bracket doing nothing.

An inboard diesel well maintained is just about idiot proof and better to spend any money available on keeping it in good condition particularly fuel and start battery.

 

[seeSimon]

My eprop spirit plus (£1800!) Begins to struggle noticeably against the tide, on a 9ft dory with two aboard, and a pile of cruising stores. You can see the "rangeometer" ticking down.

No chance of it shifting a centaur in any meaningful way...imho...

 

[Egret]

You have sails as backup - and if no wind maybe a pair of oars or a sculling oar just need to get to somewhere you can tie up, get ashore then move the boat back to the mooring later - wait for the flood tide. Our harbour has a tow in service if needed. Speak to Mr Nestaway (there are others)- he has mid way options for this type of boat with a battery you can easily carry..

 

[LittleSister]

Well, you could power a Centaur with a very long sweep (oar), but it would be in the the way most of the time, and you'd have to rig up in advance a proper rowlock, strongly mounted at just the right height and lateral and longitudinal position for it to be effective, then practise using it to develop your technique.

The reality is that with an engine like the Beta, properly maintained, the chances of ever needing it do not justify it. I would not recommend your course of action for the reasons stated above.

I can recommend practising close quarters sailing - onto and off moorings, pontoons and anchor, etc. in various wind strengths and directions, and perhaps getting getting some training on this. (i used to do such manoeuvres, and was unafraid (if often nervous!) of them, but I learnt several new to me useful techniques and gained much more confidence during my Coastal Skipper course with an excellent instructor.) That way the prospect of having no motor, or it cutting out at an inconvenient moment, becomes much less worrying.

Our home marina is eay up in Fareham Creek so not sure an electric could take us through the harbour entrance and then all the way home.

In the unlikely event of it ever happening, you could probably get a tow from another yacht, or call a boatyard or marine to send a workboat to tow you in. Unless you were single-handed you could probably tow your boat with your dinghy.

Years ago my usually ultra-reliable engine refused to start (despite all the usual checks) after a night on a mooring at Lyme Regis, on the homeward leg of a long holiday from Lymington to Brittany, via Salcombe both ways. (We'd actually motored all the way from Brittany to Salcombe on the return journey, as the forecast wind shift never arrived.) We sailed off the mooring at Lyme Regis, and rounded Portland in extremely light winds (pirouetting through the overfalls - thankfully very light - at the Bill and the Shambles(?) bank when the wind died completely!), spent the night with still very light winds only just stemming the adverse tide at St Aldhelms Head, rested a while at at anchor at Studland, and then sailed into Lymington, where I was planning to sail onto a marina pontoon, as I doubted I could successfully get us onto our very confined double-trot mooring. Unfortunately, I foolishly and unnecessarily helped the crew put out the fenders while I was on the tiller approaching the marina, wasn't paying sufficient attention to our course, and put us on the mud on a falling tide! Calling the marina workboat to pull us off the mud and into the marina cost some pounds, some embarrassment, and a bottle of Scotch for the yard hand who'd interrupted his break to come and get us before the tide fell too far, but was worth it.

 

[Gixer]

My power options for my 27 foot boat in order,
Sails
Reliable inboard engine (jinxed it!)
2.5hp outboard with a 2.3 inflatable dinghy to tow the mothership
Very long wooden oar's which I've used once to scull, worked surprising well..
If all else fails
Anchor and radio.

 

[ylop]

Hi all

On our centaur we have a very reliable Beta 20 which I service every year, but as we all know you never can tell if it will fail. At present we do not have a backup outboard and I do not want a smelly petrol outboard and fuel tank on board so I am thinking electric.
The outboard would only be used should the Beta fail so in such cases it would be sail as close to a safe haven as possible and then motor to the nearest marina.

Our home marina is eay up in Fareham Creek so not sure an electric could take us through the harbour entrance and then all the way home.

My question is has anyone done this on a Centaur sized yacht and if so what size motor did you purchase?

Others seem to have assumed you have a dinghy with o/b but I wonder if that's right given your line about smelly fuel tank and engine? Spending thousand on a motor you will never use does seem odd - but if your question was "I want to put an electric o/b on my dinghy but also have the potential to use it on the yacht for berthing operations only if the main engine failed" you may get a different answer.

 

[Babylon]

My engine actually failed on a fairly short (3hr) passage in the Solent a week or so ago: massive coolant leak from fresh-water pump at near full revs (turned out later that the pump bearing was shot to pieces), engine overheated so I killed it.

BUT what I had 'in hand' was a favourable tide that was building, and a gentle following wind that was also getting a little fresher. So I hoisted the main and unfurled the heads'l and continued on passage, while under autohelm (I was on my own) I refilled the coolant (had enough aboard to replace when mixed 1:1 with water what was lost) so that I could at least have safe engine use for a short period when coming alongside at the destination. I sailed at 3kts, building to 5 as the angle gradually improved, doused the main at the mouth of the river and with the flood underneath the keel we ghosted up under small heads'l, finally using the now cooled-down engine only for the last 2-3mins.

Had I not had the tide in my favour I'd not have been on that passage in the first place! Had there been no wind at all (most unlikely) things would have been a bit more challenging, but at no point was I at risk from shipping or in water too deep to anchor in. Had I had no engine use at all, then my obvious option would have been to sail onto an empty pontoon mooring in the river, having first gybed around 180 degrees to use the incoming tide as my brakes, and from there I could have arranged a tow to my own mooring etc.

To the OP: no need to overthink things, and if you're inclined to spend money or effort then prioritise ensuring your main engine is in tip-top and reliable condition at all times.

 

[LittleSister]

Others seem to have assumed you have a dinghy with o/b . . .

That is an unwarranted assumption in my case.

 

[Gixer]

Side note, petrol outboards don't have to be smelly.
My 2022 Suzuki 2.5hp sits in the main cabin when I'm not on board, I've never opened the hatch and thought 'corr that stinks of petrol...'

 

[DJA]

Before I re-engined 2 years ago I made a temporary plywood outboard bracket for my spirit plus outboard to see how it would push the boat along, 24ft 3t gaff cutter. Did OK up Walton Channel against the tide and as close to the bank as I could get to avoid worst of the tide, little headwind, about 8kts and it got me to my mooring. Started at Stone Point and mooring is just upstream of Titchmarsh 1.6NM and about 1kt tide by the bank. Used about 60%. I didn't check my speed but reckon about 2kts. If I had reduced power/speed I would have had a bit more in reserve.

 

[Mark-1]

Seastart is ~£140 per year.

https://www.seastart.co.uk/

I'd be doing that.

 

[DJA]

Bear in mind with an Epropulsion outboard that it slowly disharges over time to 60% to maintain the battery. If you have an outboard on board that is rarely used you will not have full charge plus they go into sleep mode after a period and need to be connected to a charger to wake up (mains or solar/12v bat)

 

[Supertramp]

Well, you could power a Centaur with a very long sweep (oar), but it would be in the the way most of the time, and you'd have to rig up in advance a proper rowlock, strongly mounted at just the right height and lateral and longitudinal position for it to be effective, then practise using it to develop your technique.

The reality is that with an engine like the Beta, properly maintained, the chances of ever needing it do not justify it. I would not recommend your course of action for the reasons stated above.

I can recommend practising close quarters sailing - onto and off moorings, pontoons and anchor, etc. in various wind strengths and directions, and perhaps getting getting some training on this. (i used to do such manoeuvres, and was unafraid (if often nervous!) of them, but I learnt several new to me useful techniques and gained much more confidence during my Coastal Skipper course with an excellent instructor.) That way the prospect of having no motor, or it cutting out at an inconvenient moment, becomes much less worrying.



In the unlikely event of it ever happening, you could probably get a tow from another yacht, or call a boatyard or marine to send a workboat to tow you in. Unless you were single-handed you could probably tow your boat with your dinghy.

Years ago my usually ultra-reliable engine refused to start (despite all the usual checks) after a night on a mooring at Lyme Regis, on the homeward leg of a long holiday from Lymington to Brittany, via Salcombe both ways. (We'd actually motored all the way from Brittany to Salcombe on the return journey, as the forecast wind shift never arrived.) We sailed off the mooring at Lyme Regis, and rounded Portland in extremely light winds (pirouetting through the overfalls - thankfully very light - at the Bill and the Shambles(?) bank when the wind died completely!), spent the night with still very light winds only just stemming the adverse tide at St Aldhelms Head, rested a while at at anchor at Studland, and then sailed into Lymington, where I was planning to sail onto a marina pontoon, as I doubted I could successfully get us onto our very confined double-trot mooring. Unfortunately, I foolishly and unnecessarily helped the crew put out the fenders while I was on the tiller approaching the marina, wasn't paying sufficient attention to our course, and put us on the mud on a falling tide! Calling the marina workboat to pull us off the mud and into the marina cost some pounds, some embarrassment, and a bottle of Scotch for the yard hand who'd interrupted his break to come and get us before the tide fell too far, but was worth it.

What went wrong with the engine?

 

[LittleSister]

What went wrong with the engine?

I don't know. It mystified the engineer. It had been running fine before it had been stopped on arrival at Lyme Regis, and refused to start for me or the engineer thereafter. He eventually ended up taking the head to a specialist company for some work (on the valve seats? it was never very clear). He speculated that the anti-syphon valve for the engine cooling water had started spitting (because the flap had been held partially open by salt crystals), and this spitting salt water had been drawn into the semi-upward facing air intake for the engine just below it, and the salt (and/or water?) had somehow (directly or indirectly?) affected the valve seating.

Seemed unlikely to me, but whatever: it took him a lot of time, and me a lot of money (both for the engineer and for the marina berth I was stuck in until he fixed it), but the engine was going fine again.

It never missed a beat before or since, except once years later when the fuel filter became almost completely blocked by yuck in the fuel when I was out in boisterous conditions. Once the filter was changed, it was purring away as usual.

 

[Supertramp]

I don't know. It mystified the engineer. It had been running fine before it had been stopped on arrival at Lyme Regis, and refused to start for me or the engineer thereafter. He eventually ended up taking the head to a specialist company for some work (on the valve seats? it was never very clear). He speculated that the anti-syphon valve for the engine cooling water had started spitting (because the flap had been held partially open by salt crystals), and this spitting salt water had been drawn into the semi-upward facing air intake for the engine just below it, and the salt (and/or water?) had somehow (directly or indirectly?) affected the valve seating.

Seemed unlikely to me, but whatever: it took him a lot of time, and me a lot of money (both for the engineer and for the marina berth I was stuck in until he fixed it), but the engine was going fine again.

It never missed a beat before or since, except once years later when the fuel filter became almost completely blocked by yuck in the fuel when I was out in boisterous conditions. Once the filter was changed, it was purring away as usual.

Thanks. It's good to share such events.

I have had an electric outboard for over 10 years and it has on several occasions failed (and recovered) with some sort of electronic hiccup. I don't think it would enjoy pulling or stopping 10T of boat.

A quant pole might be more useful in a modern marina, if a little hard to stow.

 

[Rappey]

Sails are your primary form of propulsion. Your diesel is a auxiliary. You dont need another backup.
If you are genuinely worried then the earlier suggestion of seastart seems a great idea as possibly cheaper over ten years compared to outboard.
Generally , outboards on boats around 25ft and larger dont work well as hard to reach/control and can lift out of the water over each wave.

 

[Cerebus]

Hi all

On our centaur we have a very reliable Beta 20 which I service every year, but as we all know you never can tell if it will fail. At present we do not have a backup outboard and I do not want a smelly petrol outboard and fuel tank on board so I am thinking electric.
The outboard would only be used should the Beta fail so in such cases it would be sail as close to a safe haven as possible and then motor to the nearest marina.

Our home marina is eay up in Fareham Creek so not sure an electric could take us through the harbour entrance and then all the way home.

My question is has anyone done this on a Centaur sized yacht and if so what size motor did you purchase?

In answer to your question, no I have not done it.

If you are a millionaire go for it.

I have sailed on boats with no engine except at all except for a tender and a small 2stroke outboard that was used to move the 60 footer (yes 60footer) with tender tied alongside aft of the mast for many miles (on a calm day).

I applaud your ideal towards preparation however and I did carry my tender’s outboard on the pushpit and have it ready as an emergency propulsion unit (never needed).

as for petrol canisters in cockpit lockers; you have a diesel tank and high pressure injectors down below.

All good questions; no such thing as a stupid question, asking is how people learn.

 

[merjan]

I realise I’m not really answering your question. I hope you still wouldn’t mind me pointing out that in many cases sails are a much better reliable backup for an engine failure. Furthermore the cost of an electric outboard solely for that purpose is similar to many years of SeaStart membership.