West Country this Summer?

[GTom]

You seem to be under the impression that the Cornish can afford the inflated house prices: they can't, not by a long way. So a price collapse and availability of housing could be a good thing. It would certainly reduce the need for 10's of thousands of new homes that are being built. 4500 just outside Truro.

And the money from those sales doesn't go to the local economy, it goes to the national housebuilders.

What really rankles many here is the second home owner dodge of owning their property through a business, so they then have to pay business rates, but because of small business rate relief they pay zero.

And then to cap it all, during this crisis, the council have paid out hundreds of thousands as they qualified for the small business 10k or 25k grants, paid out to their " businesses " that enjoy small businesses rate relief.

Put yourselves in the shoes of a local - self employed, scraping by serving the 2nd home owners, cleaning, plumbing, chefs at restaurants, waiters etc... who have got nothing from the government or council, are watching their lives crumble, paying rent to up-country landlords (who have got the grant btw) who refuse to allow a payment holiday or reduction in the crisis. How would you feel? Grateful?

You come down here with your London friends, bringing your waitrose food, shopping on the way at some retail park, but seem to have an almost imperial belief that by owning a second home you are supporting the local community and economy. You aren't, you aren't providing footfall to keep the local pub, shop, post office open (but you fool yourself that you are on your weekend away in Cornwall). And you certainly aren't solving any housing problem.

I'm not Cornish btw, I moved here 20 years ago, and created a company that employs many people in proper full time jobs, so I tend to reckon I've done my bit, but self-righteous 2nd home owners, and the attitude you've displayed that we should somehow doff our caps to you sire, sicken me.

Pouring too much money in a region certainly does a significant damage to the social climate and the environment.

 

[Bluetack42]

You seem to be under the impression that the Cornish can afford the inflated house prices: they can't, not by a long way. So a price collapse and availability of housing could be a good thing. It would certainly reduce the need for 10's of thousands of new homes that are being built. 4500 just outside Truro.

And the money from those sales doesn't go to the local economy, it goes to the national housebuilders.

What really rankles many here is the second home owner dodge of owning their property through a business, so they then have to pay business rates, but because of small business rate relief they pay zero.

And then to cap it all, during this crisis, the council have paid out hundreds of thousands as they qualified for the small business 10k or 25k grants, paid out to their " businesses " that enjoy small businesses rate relief.

Put yourselves in the shoes of a local - self employed, scraping by serving the 2nd home owners, cleaning, plumbing, chefs at restaurants, waiters etc... who have got nothing from the government or council, are watching their lives crumble, paying rent to up-country landlords (who have got the grant btw) who refuse to allow a payment holiday or reduction in the crisis. How would you feel? Grateful?

You come down here with your London friends, bringing your waitrose food, shopping on the way at some retail park, but seem to have an almost imperial belief that by owning a second home you are supporting the local community and economy. You aren't, you aren't providing footfall to keep the local pub, shop, post office open (but you fool yourself that you are on your weekend away in Cornwall). And you certainly aren't solving any housing problem.

I'm not Cornish btw, I moved here 20 years ago, and created a company that employs many people in proper full time jobs, so I tend to reckon I've done my bit, but self-righteous 2nd home owners, and the attitude you've displayed that we should somehow doff our caps to you sire, sicken me.

Dear Comrade Red. Is being deluded & unable to read/understand logic something that happens if you live too long in the sticks?

1. The value of existing housing stock in Cornwall has gone up because its a market, other homes are purchased by second home owners driving up the whole market, ask all the existing Cornish home owners if their homes have gone up in value over the past 20 years? Ask them if they would like the value to go down?
2. The number of new homes being built will go down if second home owners leave & prices collapse, no profit for developers means no building. Can you imagine how tough it is being a first time buyer in London? in comparison Cornwall is easy.
3. The profit in building new homes goes predominantly to the owner of the land when the planning changes to allow house building, not the builder.
4. Its not second home owners who pay business rates its holiday let owners, looks similar but is different, to qualify you need to offer the property to rent for 230 days a year and let it out for at least 115 days. Completely different from unlet second homes that are just used by the owners. Many holiday let people ARE running businesses, have borrowed heavily to get the property, rarely or never stay there themselves and do inject, via the tourists, a lot of cash into the local economy. As small businesses many would have been unable to service mortgages without government help in the lockdown, they are just as much a business as the local pub.
5. If a second home owner (as opposed to a holiday let owner) tried to claim business rates or the government support scheme it would be fraud & quickly picked up by the council and prosecuted, contrary to popular belief second home owners pay full council tax, I certainly do.
6. In the shoes of the local self employed I would be happy to have taken the government Covid scheme, unless I had been paying myself via dividends to save tax.
7. I get the impression that the only thing you want sending down from London is bucket loads of cash paid by the taxes of the city workers, to support your unsustainable rural idyll. Without that flow of cash Cornwall would be 3rd world, the price you have to pay is tourists & second homers.
8. How come the second home owners are self-righteous (all of them?) but you who has "done your bit" isn't?

 

[longjohnsilver]

You seem to be under the impression that the Cornish can afford the inflated house prices: they can't, not by a long way. So a price collapse and availability of housing could be a good thing. It would certainly reduce the need for 10's of thousands of new homes that are being built. 4500 just outside Truro.

And the money from those sales doesn't go to the local economy, it goes to the national housebuilders.

What really rankles many here is the second home owner dodge of owning their property through a business, so they then have to pay business rates, but because of small business rate relief they pay zero.

And then to cap it all, during this crisis, the council have paid out hundreds of thousands as they qualified for the small business 10k or 25k grants, paid out to their " businesses " that enjoy small businesses rate relief.

Put yourselves in the shoes of a local - self employed, scraping by serving the 2nd home owners, cleaning, plumbing, chefs at restaurants, waiters etc... who have got nothing from the government or council, are watching their lives crumble, paying rent to up-country landlords (who have got the grant btw) who refuse to allow a payment holiday or reduction in the crisis. How would you feel? Grateful?

You come down here with your London friends, bringing your waitrose food, shopping on the way at some retail park, but seem to have an almost imperial belief that by owning a second home you are supporting the local community and economy. You aren't, you aren't providing footfall to keep the local pub, shop, post office open (but you fool yourself that you are on your weekend away in Cornwall). And you certainly aren't solving any housing problem.

I'm not Cornish btw, I moved here 20 years ago, and created a company that employs many people in proper full time jobs, so I tend to reckon I've done my bit, but self-righteous 2nd home owners, and the attitude you've displayed that we should somehow doff our caps to you sire, sicken me.

I take it that you know Bluetack. If you don’t, you’re making lots of assumptions and being pretty unpleasant with it. Not a good advert for Cornwall.

 

[Tintin]

Dear Comrade Red. Is being deluded & unable to read/understand logic something that happens if you live too long in the sticks?

1. The value of existing housing stock in Cornwall has gone up because its a market, other homes are purchased by second home owners driving up the whole market, ask all the existing Cornish home owners if their homes have gone up in value over the past 20 years? Ask them if they would like the value to go down?
2. The number of new homes being built will go down if second home owners leave & prices collapse, no profit for developers means no building. Can you imagine how tough it is being a first time buyer in London? in comparison Cornwall is easy.
3. The profit in building new homes goes predominantly to the owner of the land when the planning changes to allow house building, not the builder.
4. Its not second home owners who pay business rates its holiday let owners, looks similar but is different, to qualify you need to offer the property to rent for 230 days a year and let it out for at least 115 days. Completely different from unlet second homes that are just used by the owners. Many holiday let people ARE running businesses, have borrowed heavily to get the property, rarely or never stay there themselves and do inject, via the tourists, a lot of cash into the local economy. As small businesses many would have been unable to service mortgages without government help in the lockdown, they are just as much a business as the local pub.
5. If a second home owner (as opposed to a holiday let owner) tried to claim business rates or the government support scheme it would be fraud & quickly picked up by the council and prosecuted, contrary to popular belief second home owners pay full council tax, I certainly do.
6. In the shoes of the local self employed I would be happy to have taken the government Covid scheme, unless I had been paying myself via dividends to save tax.
7. I get the impression that the only thing you want sending down from London is bucket loads of cash paid by the taxes of the city workers, to support your unsustainable rural idyll. Without that flow of cash Cornwall would be 3rd world, the price you have to pay is tourists & second homers.
8. How come the second home owners are self-righteous (all of them?) but you who has "done your bit" isn't?

Having read above how much you despise the people here, how you look down on them, I would imagine the real reason you are selling up is because you've put peoples backs up. You won't be missed.

 

[Tintin]

I take it that you know Bluetack. If you don’t, you’re making lots of assumptions and being pretty unpleasant with it. Not a good advert for Cornwall.

Yeah right, silly me, I should kow tow to my betters eh? How dare I criticise the stereotype of the 2nd home owner, perfectly portrayed by BlueTack.

 

[chriss999]

A house price explosion fuelled by ‘foreign’ money is an advantage to sellers but a disadvantage to the majority who live in that place, because it prices them out of the market. Those locals who can buy suffer because they have to borrow more.

 

[zoidberg]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but here's a view.

over 45 years ago I, as a young air force officer based at RAF St Mawgan ( Newquay Intl ) and married, with two modest incomes, couldn't afford to buy within 30 miles around. What's more, we coudn't save enough per month to keep up with the rise in Deposits demanded, due to price inflation.

Interest rates got higher and higher. Our chances of getting onto the home ownership ladder became more and more remote.

Interest rates today are the lowest they've been in my lifetime.....

 

[GTom]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but here's a view.

over 45 years ago I, as a young air force officer based at RAF St Mawgan ( Newquay Intl ) and married, with two modest incomes, couldn't afford to buy within 30 miles around. What's more, we coudn't save enough per month to keep up with the rise in Deposits demanded, due to price inflation.

Interest rates got higher and higher. Our chances of getting onto the home ownership ladder became more and more remote.

Interest rates today are the lowest they've been in my lifetime.....

Rates are indeed low, price is the problem.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Yeah right, silly me, I should kow tow to my betters eh? How dare I criticise the stereotype of the 2nd home owner, perfectly portrayed by BlueTack.

Where did I say you should kowtow to anyone? I didn't. And criticism is fine when based on facts rather than assumptions.

 

[Bluetack42]

A house price explosion fuelled by ‘foreign’ money is an advantage to sellers but a disadvantage to the majority who live in that place, because it prices them out of the market. Those locals who can buy suffer because they have to borrow more.

Yeah right, silly me, I should kow tow to my betters eh? How dare I criticise the stereotype of the 2nd home owner, perfectly portrayed by BlueTack

As we have never met or communicated before yesterday you prove my point perfectly. Invent a stereotype loaded with negative connotations then apply it blanket fashion to everyone who might fit the description, Ie all second home owners pay no business rates, take council grants, shop at Waitrose & have friends from London. And then get nasty when somebody does not agree with your views, all done with a large shoulder chip. I need say no more.

 

[MJWF]

Rates are indeed low, price is the problem.

Higher prices are driven by low interest rates. Cost of a mortgage is not excessive as a proportion of income nationally. But that doesn't help regions where incomes are below average but house prices are above...

Solution is to scrap income tax and replace with land value tax. Suddenly 2nd homes wont be viable for almost anyone, relieving pressure on local demand in the regions or compensating with taxes if the very rich continue to have 2nd homes.

High house prices (or boat prices) arent an economic force for good in themselves...

 

[chriss999]

As we have never met or communicated before yesterday you prove my point perfectly. Invent a stereotype loaded with negative connotations then apply it blanket fashion to everyone who might fit the description, Ie all second home owners pay no business rates, take council grants, shop at Waitrose & have friends from London. And then get nasty when somebody does not agree with your views, all done with a large shoulder chip. I need say no more.

I am not sure that I have been nasty to you bluetack. I commented generally on the effect of second homes, not on your second home. In my earlier post I made a point of wishing you happy cruising.
You came onto a lovely thread about the cruising the West Country with your negative thoughts about locals here, so don’t be too surprised if you get some push back.
But I repeat my best wishes to you.

 

[Tintin]

As we have never met or communicated before yesterday you prove my point perfectly. Invent a stereotype loaded with negative connotations then apply it blanket fashion to everyone who might fit the description, Ie all second home owners pay no business rates, take council grants, shop at Waitrose & have friends from London. And then get nasty when somebody does not agree with your views, all done with a large shoulder chip. I need say no more.

Says the man that wrote about how he was "sickened" by the "locals". Who himself applied a blanket opinion on the people of Cornwall, writing that people would have to "dodge the pitchforks" and assuming that us "locals" all hate 2nd home owners.

Well we don't, just those who swan in with a sense of entitlement, a condescending attitude to those who live and work here, who treat us like some sort of holiday tinsel, and get upset when we aren't grateful for them coming here during the Covid crisis, or for the few weekends and weeks that they grace us with their presence annually.


But you can't see that can you, all wrapped up in your home counties attitude.

 

[Tintin]

Probably like many, we're torn about what to do with our cruising this summer - probably July.

If we assume overnight restrictions will be lifted as planned on 4 July, do we think the usual south-west England haunts will, from a marine point of view:

a) be horribly busy (people who'd otherwise sail elsewhere may stay in the UK; this will be the first opportunity to get away for many in a short season; lots of pent up demand);

b) be nice and quiet (people may not have bothered relaunching at all in some cases; they won't be ready to go just yet; people may wait until later in the year)

c) be about normal as a result of the above balancing out?!

Thoughts appreciated!

Anyway back to the OP, it isn't busy here right now, and I doubt it will be when restrictions are eased.

Of course we have had superb weather, but as each restriction eases so it steadily gets worse, running up to the usual rain and grey days for school holidays.

September should be nice, it usually is.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

And, of course, for those looking to arrive from points East such as Lake Solent or the Essex creeks, the Easterly winds we have had of late have now shift round so they will be on the nose!

 

[DJE]

Rates are indeed low, price is the problem.

Strange looking graph. Were salaries and house prices both zero in 1968?

 

[Carib]

Of course we have had superb weather, but as each restriction eases so it steadily gets worse, running up to the usual rain and grey days for school holidays.

Thanks. And yes, I noticed that! September out for us sadly.. I think we will probably head down that way, cruise in a fairly self-sufficient way with lots of mooring off and anchoring (which we like to do anyway) and enjoy some beaches and walks with our 4 year old.

 

[Tintin]

Thanks. And yes, I noticed that! September out for us sadly.. I think we will probably head down that way, cruise in a fairly self-sufficient way with lots of mooring off and anchoring (which we like to do anyway) and enjoy some beaches and walks with our 4 year old.

Currently at Falmouth Haven they are not accepting alongside berthing except for fuel and water and they would like you to book visitor moorings 24hrs in advance.

At Premier marina it seems to be the same but worth emailing them.

Fal anchorages are all being used, with a few sneaky overnights.

Unsure on Fowey.

 

[coveman]

Strange looking graph. Were salaries and house prices both zero in 1968?

Well, my parents bought a house back then for £4000, so it wouldn't even show on the graph at that scale!! How times change.

 

[Carib]

Currently at Falmouth Haven they are not accepting alongside berthing except for fuel and water and they would like you to book visitor moorings 24hrs in advance.

At Premier marina it seems to be the same but worth emailing them.

Fal anchorages are all being used, with a few sneaky overnights.

Unsure on Fowey.

That's good to know. We're working on the basis overnighting will at least be allowed by then...