Weapons on board

[Reverend Ludd]

Interesting this same question came upon the US site like this-sailnet.
Very scary where most were totally gung ho about arming theselves to the teeth with weaponary.
Personally I would not choose to be anywhere on board a thin plastic boat facing machine gun fire!
Just keep well clear although as I suggested on the US site the use of Q ships does seem appropriate.They were used to great effect in WW1 against u boat.
They appeared to be unarmed merchantmen but with hidden heavy caliber weaponary and manned by naval personell and Royal Marines.
Some had below deck large caliber guns mounted on hydraulic lifts capable of blowing a submarine out of the water as well as heavy caliber machine guns.
Several as I recall were converted sailing ships which were an easy u boat target at that time.

Nice idea but someone on board needs to give the order to open fire.
Maybe a hotline to the editor of the Daily Mail.

 

[DownWest]

The Q ships also relied on the U boat surfacing and using it's gun, rather than an expensive torpedo. Cargo was wood, in case that didn't work.

 

[snowleopard]

Whenever this topic comes up there are always a few willy-wavers who make much macho talk about how they would blow the bad guys away. In America the ability for citizens to stop armed criminals is given as one of the excuses for having a machine gun under the pillow.

That must be why, when one of the frequent gun rampages in schools etc over there are always stopped instantly by citizens gunning down the miscreant before he can do any damage with his mail-order gun.

Would anyone care to quote an instance where one of these massacres, or a pirate attack on a yacht, has been thwarted by armed civilians?

 

[Searush]

Snowy;

I have just finished a book by Jim Moore, "By way of the Wind" a pleasant story af a charming couple who build their own boat & sail it down the E coast of America round the world in the 1980's. Worth a read btw.

At one point they are approached by a suspicious displacement motor boat & they try to outrun it without success. So, as it closes in & they are signalling him to stop he brings a rifle into the cockpit & points it at the helmsman. The boat sheers off & they escape.

But they could just have been local fishermen desperate for water I suppose. It seems unlikely that they themselves were armed & there is no mention at any time of declaring or surrendering the weapon at any country they call at. Might have been a different story elsewhere & in more recent times.

 

[DownWest]

SL, there is a recent case of two US reg boats engaging pirates (with shotguns) and disabling one and sinking the other. The pirates opened fire first, giving the yachts little option. Several factors were important: The pirates tactics were very bad, giving one yacht the opportunity to ram them and the other to be close enough to pick off some of them while attempting to board. The skippers were both ex USN, but said they were extremely lucky to get away with it.
I doubt they had birdshot in the guns and were arms trained and used to making decisions.
They had a few holes in the sails and were in steel boats. From what I've read that is not a great protection from AK 47 at close range. Guapa?

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Would anyone care to quote an instance where one of these massacres, or a pirate attack on a yacht, has been thwarted by armed civilians?

One

Two

Three

Would you like t find some where armed civilians who fought have been killed

 

[nimbusgb]

One

Two

Three

Would you like t find some where armed civilians who fought have been killed

One - Maersk Alabama - certainly not a 'yacht' - Piracy expert John Burnett said that he suspected that the US "crew" may have been military operatives taking part in a honey trap operation

Two - We only have the word of a guy being charged with carrying 10 illegal weapons that he actually scared anyone off - in Peru where night visitors are not armed to the teeth in the way that Somalis are.

Three - Meanwhile, pirates stole his yacht and took it to another island. Konyukhov didn’t hesitate to hijack a motorboat from another pirate gang to find the “Formosa.” The drunken sea robbers he found on board the motorboat were tied up and loaded off to a lifeboat. - So preventing the initial act of piracy didn't work, weapons or not and then this guy commits another act of piracy and overcomes a bunch of drunks on board a boat.

C'mon rev you'll have to do much better than that!

Unfortunately the incidents where armed yotties take on pirates and fail become stories about yotties killed by pirates.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

C'mon rev you'll have to do much better than that!

Fair enough, maybe tomorrow.
But surly someone has been killed whilst defending himself ?

Anyway it's the way I'd prefer to go, not tied up next to someones goat all the while hoping the goat was better looking than me

 

[Searush]

Fair enough, maybe tomorrow.
But surly someone has been killed whilst defending himself ?

(snip):

Peter Blake?

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Peter Blake?

Yes I guess so, any more?

 

[DownWest]

French guy a month or so ago? Wife captured but later rescued/released by Spanish Navy. Bullet damage to yacht, so I presume he defended it.

 

[Searush]

French guy a month or so ago? Wife captured but later rescued/released by Spanish Navy. Bullet damage to yacht, so I presume he defended it.

Some interesting issues if you try to defend yourself. First there is no point in pirates sinking the boat & killing all aboard. They NEED hostages to get their ransome, but if you are troublesome, they would be stupid not to kill you. It gets rid of one problem & subdues anyone else who might have ideas.

 

[Koeketiene]

French guy a month or so ago? Wife captured but later rescued/released by Spanish Navy. Bullet damage to yacht, so I presume he defended it.

He did.
However, he was hopelessly out gunned and his choice of weapon was somewhat 'inappropriate/unfortunate'. (Don't bring a knife to a gunfight )

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Some interesting issues if you try to defend yourself. First there is no point in pirates sinking the boat & killing all aboard. They NEED hostages to get their ransome, but if you are troublesome, they would be stupid not to kill you. It gets rid of one problem & subdues anyone else who might have ideas.

Don't you think though if you were a pirate you would take the easiest prey rather pick on a poor Cleric

 

[Searush]

Don't you think though if you were a pirate you would take the easiest prey rather pick on a poor Cleric

How well does that cope with a salt water environment? It's a large bore, does it fire flares?

I wanted to post a link to the Capt Ron scene where the flare gun is fired off below decks here, but I can't find one. Please use your memory/ imagination to fill the gaps.

 

[prv]

It's a large bore, does it fire flares?

It fires grenades.

Pete

 

[Ariadne]

French guy a month or so ago? Wife captured but later rescued/released by Spanish Navy. Bullet damage to yacht, so I presume he defended it.

But Christian was an ex French Marine who served umpteen years in Africa!!

Apart from that a friend of mine now dead........... Not so cool now is it!!!

 

[Reverend Ludd]

How well does that cope with a salt water environment? It's a large bore, does it fire flares?

I wanted to post a link to the Capt Ron scene where the flare gun is fired off below decks here, but I can't find one. Please use your memory/ imagination to fill the gaps.

I get the message about flares going off below decks but should you ever find yourself needing a grenade launcher Health & Safety is out the window surely.

The best defence against piracy for a bloke like me is 9 out of 10 yachties without the means to defend themselves except perhaps a pamphlet saying that guns are bad, giving the impression that yachts are easy meat. I'm going (IF I ever go there) to try and persuade them that someone else's boat offers an easier day at work.

 

[Talbot]

I've just watch an edition of Mighty Ships (my fav show) it was about a Danish Patrol Vessel protecting ships around the Gulf of Aden. Anyway a bunch of pirates (maybe 6 boats) start to attack a freighter, the Dutch move in on one boat and the pirates hold their hands up. They are told to throw their weapons overboard, while they do this the other boats skip town. The story ends with the Navy deciding to let the pirates go with a warning but the pirates engine wont start so they fix it for them and give them a tank of gas.

The second scenario was about the same except the freighter had thrown a petrol bomb in one of the boats. Along come the Navy in time to rescue the pirates and bring them on board (they will then transfer them back to their homeland we are told). Cue Linx gunner firing into burning boat to sink it, not because it's a pirate boat but because it might cause a problem to another boat.

That's the bloody problem, they think we are wusses, I'd be a pirate if I lived there.

I wonder what the outcome might have been if Nelson or one of his contemporaries had come upon such a scene. !!

It is not the military that are being wusses. They are mandated to behave in a certain way by the politicians. Sterner measures will not happen until the Governmensts grow a set of cojones.

If there are no laws in their country which allow them to prosecute, then the military have no choice but to release - again a government problem, not a military one.

As for carrying weapons - a gun does not make you particularly dangerous, it is the person who is dangerous. Give someone who is not dangerous, a gun, and they become a priority target for a dangerous person.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

It is not the military that are being wusses. They are mandated to behave in a certain way by the politicians. Sterner measures will not happen until the Governmensts grow a set of cojones.

True but it annoys me that men are put in harms way to then ordered to hand out cans of petrol to armed gangs.

........Give someone who is not dangerous, a gun, and they become a priority target for a dangerous person.

That last sentence is extrememly wise