Waverley has done it again.

[SaltIre]

Would there be merit in having a small tug follow her about to assist with berthing?

They use a RIB at her home berth on the Clyde - they just tow the bow round!

OK - my bad. Not a RIB to tow - a push from a wee motor boat:

I've seen her come in to places like Millport and she does seem to come in frighteningly fast!

 

[Bilgediver]

What a huge shame after just getting back on the water after the boiler problems. Hope nobody was seriously hurt.

It is certainly a very tricky ship to manoeuvre at close quarters. No side thrusters like a CalMac ferry has to assist, paddles fixed together so can’t do reverse thrust on one side, and a tiny rudder - so needs a lot of speed to have steerage.
Its like reversing a long keel yacht in a tight space, multiplied x100. Plus lots of passengers and spectators. A tricky boat to skipper.

Now how an earth did all those White Funnel paddle boats work so well in the Bristol Channel and elsewhere back in the 50's 60's and 70's. There must have been at least 6 out in the Severn estuary going to destinations much more difficult than this. Mind you I do remember when one of my ship mates was second mate on one and learning that he got it wrong and had his wrists slapped for slicing off the end of Penarth Pier, not much damage to the ship.

They do have to maintain what is a healthy pace to steer and then line up to PASS within line throwing distance and stop at the last moment. The problem is when a 90 degree turn is required on the final approach. Watching CalMac's twin screw ferries deal with this is an eyeopener with their last minute 90 degree turn and broadsliding into the pier with enough way on to slide sideways to a stop at the right moment or a crushing blow when not quite got it! Unfortunately the old paddlers can not do this.

 

[JumbleDuck]

They do have to maintain what is a healthy pace to steer and then line up to PASS within line throwing distance and stop at the last moment. The problem is when a 90 degree turn is required on the final approach. Watching CalMac's twin screw ferries deal with this is an eyeopener with their last minute 90 degree turn and broadsliding into the pier with enough way on to slide sideways to a stop at the right moment or a crushing blow when not quite got it! Unfortunately the old paddlers can not do this.

Many Calmac ferries have Voith-Schneider propellers (VSP), which are rather like vertical axis feathering paddlewheels. This gives them instant thrust in any direction and makes them very manoeverable. Some of the more modern ones, like the Argyll and the Bute have azimuth thrusters instead, which are far slower to redirect thrust and make berthing a protracted pain in the bahookie. At a push, the VSP streakers (Juno, Jupiter and Saturn) could leave from Wemyss Bay or Rothesay every 30 minutes; the current pair can't manage 45 minutes, even though it's timetabled.

 

[[159032]]

As a schoolboy in the early sixties I would treat myself to a bus ride to Woolwich and ride the steam paddle wheel free ferries.

I would get a bag of chips and then walk under Brunel's Thames pedestrian tunnel before going back for a few more trips on the Woolwich ferries.

Paternal Grandfather worked for Dewrance and Co., innovators of steam valves. He was a highly skilled engineer. He was with them for 57 years. I like to think his firms bits were in use on those ferries.

They seemed to steer OK, but no doubt the docks were positioned just so for the regular crossings.

I remember the paddlesteamers on the Humber. I would often watch them ferry-glide alongside Minerva Pier. Not realising how difficult they were to handle. As a teenager I would quite often take a car over to New Holland (South side of the river) and on to Grimsby when shuffling cars about for a Vauxhall motor dealer. (No Humber Bridge then).
You could watch the engines working on two of the ferries. PICTURES OF THE MONTH - April 20

Wingfield Castle leaving Minerva Pier and Lincoln Castle arriving.

 

[mjcoon]

Definitely not a paddle boat, but years ago I watched a ferry park in a tiny Greek harbour. In advance, a chap rowed out to a large buoy in the middle. As the ferry came in he took a bow line from it, hooked it over the buoy and rowed furiously away. The ferry pulled the buoy to the extent of its mooring then swung round with its own momentum and ended up just kissing the harbour quayside. Now pointing out of the harbour ready for departure. It's easy to see the several potential crucial points of failure...

 

[LittleSister]

Definitely not a paddle boat, but years ago I watched a ferry park in a tiny Greek harbour. In advance, a chap rowed out to a large buoy in the middle. As the ferry came in he took a bow line from it, hooked it over the buoy and rowed furiously away. The ferry pulled the buoy to the extent of its mooring then swung round with its own momentum and ended up just kissing the harbour quayside. Now pointing out of the harbour ready for departure. It's easy to see the several potential crucial points of failure...

I've seen some amazingly skilled (and alarmingly fast!) big ferry berthing in tiny greek harbours.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Many Calmac ferries have Voith-Schneider propellers (VSP), which are rather like vertical axis feathering paddlewheels. This gives them instant thrust in any direction and makes them very manoeverable.

I had a go driving one of them - the Strangford to Portaferry one. Only in the middle though, not at the ramps. Strange to be on a craft that doesn't appear to have an identifiable bow & stern but is the same at both ends.

 

[PilotWolf]

Only around 100ft monohull passenger ferries but Two decks, low draught and small rudders So very wind affecexted.

On the island we docked bow in on floating docks. Unfortunately they occasionally get a wind direction blowing you off the dock. So the aim is to get a line ashore ASAP - ideally midship but you had to work with what you could get.

Charging at dock - towards the sea wall with no fwd escape was exciting. First time I did it it was also dark! (Training captain beside me but he didn’t say anything - we’d worked together a lot as captain/mate and he said he trusted me!)

I missed the first approach and the only escape is hard astern and hope you’re crew are making sure no one is in the way.

Also in Italy on the Almalfi coast the ferries seem to come in fast, drop anchor and swing stern in. Pretty impressive to watch.

W.

 

[prv]

So, by the time the Waverley was built, she was a complete anachronism.

Do you know why she was built as a paddler anyway? Not much sentimentalism and nostalgia in those days, it was all practicality and progress, so a deliberate throwback seems an odd choice.

Pete

 

[Bilgediver]

Could be a tad pricy! I suspect reverse gear failed, but let’s wait for the inquiry. However the repairs will need a bit more than T Cut and a hammer. Would the engine mountings survive such an impact?

I expect the engine and boiler bedplates and bolts will be checked after the rather sudden stop!

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had a go driving one of them - the Strangford to Portaferry one. Only in the middle though, not at the ramps. Strange to be on a craft that doesn't appear to have an identifiable bow & stern but is the same at both ends.

I've driven one of the Calmac ones. It was extraordinarily difficult to steer and I crossed <deleted to protect friendly crew> mostly sideways. I gather that for the longer bits of the crossings they leave the front propeller alone and steer with the back one. The experts can make these things dance.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Do you know why she was built as a paddler anyway? Not much sentimentalism and nostalgia in those days, it was all practicality and progress, so a deliberate throwback seems an odd choice.

I've never seen a reason given. She was built for the Craigendoran - Arrochar run and I am not aware of any particularly shallow piers on that route.

 

[iain789]

I've never seen a reason given. She was built for the Craigendoran - Arrochar run and I am not aware of any particularly shallow piers on that route.

Craigendoran was the problem. Shallow water, too shallow for the turbines, and the skippers of the small motor ships of the 50s reputedly found that their screws didn't "grip the water" when going astern on arrival at the pier. Waverley was built for the LNER, whose Clyde base was Craigendoran, and I think I am right in saying that all the Clyde steamers built for the LNER and their predecessor companies were paddlers.

 

[scottie]

Was she not built as a direct replacement for one sunk during WWII
And is craigendorn not very shallow ?(Lake Sailored)

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Such a shame. The ship gives pleasure to so many people. I will be making a contribution to the fund.

An unhandy ship that goes to places others of her size dare not . You have to reckon miscommunication or a mechanical problem as they are much experienced at getting in and out of interesting places.

 

[oldharry]

Was she not built as a direct replacement for one sunk during WWII
And is craigendorn not very shallow ?(Lake Sailored)

That's what I heard too. One of many built as Post war replacements of coastal shipping sunk while on Navy comissions, often minesweeping. Several paddlers played a key role at Dunkirk because of their shallow draft.

Interestingly Cambells White Funnel line in the Severn Estuary reigned from the late 1800s to the 1970s. Their fleet opertaed in their heyday from Swansea right round the S Coast and even to France and the CI. Their decline started with investment in the post war turbine screw Empress Queen. She was too big and expensive to run. Campbells c ontinued running a reduced fleet well into the 1960 finally losing out to increasing popularity of cheap overseas holidays. I well remember being distrracted as a schoolboy. In the 50s by the two Cambell"Queens" Bristol Queen and Caardiff Queen arriving at or passing Clevedon.

They too had their share of mishaps, ramming piers, and occasionally each other. Cambells were ruthles with any opposition, and there are various accounts of mishaps as they raced other companies boats to the piers to pick up passenger,s between the war

 

[mjcoon]

Interestingly Cambells White Funnel line in the Severn Estuary reigned from the late 1800s to the 1970s. Their fleet opertaed in their heyday from Swansea right round the S Coast and even to France and the CI. Their decline started with investment in the post war turbine screw Empress Queen. She was too big and expensive to run. Campbells c ontinued running a reduced fleet well into the 1960 finally losing out to increasing popularity of cheap overseas holidays. I well remember being distrracted as a schoolboy. In the 50s by the two Cambell"Queens" Bristol Queen and Caardiff Queen arriving at or passing Clevedon.

I lived in Bristol for my schooldays (1950s) and have a vague memory of being on a paddle steamer and impressed by being able to walk around the working steam engine. So probably one of those two!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Craigendoran was the problem. Shallow water, too shallow for the turbines, and the skippers of the small motor ships of the 50s reputedly found that their screws didn't "grip the water" when going astern on arrival at the pier. Waverley was built for the LNER, whose Clyde base was Craigendoran, and I think I am right in saying that all the Clyde steamers built for the LNER and their predecessor companies were paddlers.

Ah-ha. That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[mainsail1]

Bizarre that they did not extend the railway line along to Helensburgh pier where they would have deeper water.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Bizarre that they did not extend the railway line along to Helensburgh pier where they would have deeper water.

This suggests that they (the North British Railway) wanted to, but couldn't, so they built Craigendoran instead.