Watermota Sea Panther

crazycook

crazycook

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Hi, my problem is that our MK4 engine (number 711M6015BA) has gone through the process of being rebuilt and still smokes rather more than I would have expected. All moving parts have been replaced like for like, the manual settings have been followed word for word and we still get the smokies. It has been suggested to us that in a previous life the camshaft may have been replaced, what I need is the part number of the camshaft so I can check if the one we have is the right one or not. For those who have looked in their manual, I cannot find 109E on the end of the shaft or a blue painted line, the only number I can read is 771M-8250?A: I have tried emailing Stephenson Marine twice for the information, and so far they haven't replied even after a skype call. So if anyone can help I would be extremely grateful. Many thanks Derek
 
Camshaft Pt No

Part No system for Ford is 771m = 1977 start date, 1 is a Kent engine so its a late kent from if memory serves a 1,6 Fiesta.
 
Thanks for that info, that may help in replacement terms, but its the original camshaft serial/or identification number put into the Sea Panther engine that I am after, so I can check if it is the right one I have in at present.
 
Sea panther (Cortina engine)

I may be wrong but I thought that the Sea Panther was a diesel version built by Watermota of the Ford Cortina 1.6 cross flow engine.

You talk of smoke, what colour is it, black, grey or white. I once rebuilt (at an extortionate cost) a Volvo MD2B (totally different engine to yours I know) but it smoked so badly when I first started it, I had to wait for cover of darkness to slip out of the marina to give a good blast. After about 10 hours running the engine smoke reduced to almost nothing. It may be that your engine just needs some time to settle in and get a bit of carbon round the rings etc.
 
I also have this engine and have worried for the last 12 years about the gray smoke. And the oily sheen on the water from the exhaust. Not worried much however, as it starts easily, runs well and ends the season with the oil level the same as it was at the beginning. Periodically I consider getting the injectors checked, or maybe playing with the prop size, but I usually fall back on the old advice to any engineer. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Sea Panther

Hello, This is a Ford Anglia engine converted to Diesel from petrol by Exeter university. Glad I am not the only one who oils the waters surface on start up. Makes me slip through the water quicker lol. Again does not use oil so suspect that it is fuel ?? but has been doing it for 7yrs. I guess to find the camshaft number you need to find someone with a stripped engine as it is in the block ? unlike a modern OHC engine?
Wonder why anyone would change the camshaft as I thought this was for the boy racers of the world who put in high lift cams for high rev performance which in our world is not what the doctor orders? Or am I just old fashioned ?
Colin.
 
Thanks for the replies so far, there is I see one or two others out there with the Sea Panther running a little smokey. As for wanting to check whether it is the right camshaft all I can say is, we believe that the engine underwent a rebuild in 1996 on the small Greek island of Kalymnos and knowing the some small island workings, did the correct camshaft go back in!!

So back to the problem, maybe I will eventually get an answer from Stephenson's, until then just maybe someone will have a record of the part number from a previous change.
Derek
 
Sea Panther is based on Cortina 113E/118E engine

The following text from Stephenson Marine confirms that the basic engine is a Cortina Block which was a crossflow unit .

QUOTE Built in the 70’s and 80’s, Watermota designed, developed and built the legendary Sea Panther diesel. Based upon the Ford Cortina Block engine, Watermota with the help of Ford Motor Co and Exeter University developed the diesel unit.

The 105E had inlet and exhaust manifolds on the same side of the engine and as other have stated was the Anglia .

See following web page for photograph of Watermota cross flow engine.

http://www.stephensonmarine.i12.com/wmsp.htm
 
Jcorstorphine said:
I may be wrong but I thought that the Sea Panther was a diesel version built by Watermota of the Ford Cortina 1.6 cross flow engine.

You talk of smoke, what colour is it, black, grey or white. I once rebuilt (at an extortionate cost) a Volvo MD2B (totally different engine to yours I know) but it smoked so badly when I first started it, I had to wait for cover of darkness to slip out of the marina to give a good blast. After about 10 hours running the engine smoke reduced to almost nothing. It may be that your engine just needs some time to settle in and get a bit of carbon round the rings etc.
Click to expand...


You may well be right about the engine needing to settle in, the smoke is blue/grey which would indicate oil and or injection pump timing, possible valve timing/lift (thus camshaft number), as for giving the engine a good blast, that for different reasons is out of the question for the moment.
Derek
 
Give it a blast

Why not tie up alongside and run the engine in gear then build up to 1500 RPM for an hour, drop back down to a tickover for 15 mins then back up to 2000 and so on. Keep changing the revs as if you were in a car so that the engine can run at different speeds to help bed in the rings etc. Keep away from RPM where there is higher than normal vibration.

Best of luck.

PS I have just finished re-building my marine version of the 1600cc Ford Fiesta Overhead Cam engine and got it running today, Unlike my crappy Volvo, this one has not a trace of smoke or fumes.
 
"The following text from Stephenson Marine confirms that the basic engine is a Cortina Block which was a crossflow unit ."

In the late 1960's I was one of the process engineers on the engine line at Dagenham and I did some work with Ford Industrial Power Products.

There is no such thing as a Cortina block, IF the engine is as late as suggested then its a 5 bearing crank evolution of the KENT engine and 1600 - 2000cc, however IF its a 109E then its a 1340cc 3 bearing block. There were lots of other variations 112e, 113e etc.

No the block isnt cross flow, the cylinder head was the crossflow bit. To make the engine crossflow just change the cylinder head from Anglia to Escort! BUT the pistons in the crossflow were different with the combustion chamber in the piston not the cylinder head - but the block was the same. . .

As far as camshafts are concerned I would think the the mariniser would know what camshaft was fitted, it was not unusual in those days to take a standard cam and reprofile it for low volume runs, this work was sometimes done in house at dagenham or by the mariniser. The problem is that sometimes these parts would not have a different part number from standard. not good!

Then came the Pinto engine again it had the same KENT block with yet another cylinder head configuration and a rubber band to drive the OHC and a chain to drive the orginal cam that made the dizzy and the oil pump go round. - however, the less we say about that lump the better I think.
 
Last edited:
Jcorstorphine said:
Why not tie up alongside and run the engine in gear then build up to 1500 RPM for an hour, drop back down to a tickover for 15 mins then back up to 2000 and so on. Keep changing the revs as if you were in a car so that the engine can run at different speeds to help bed in the rings etc. Keep away from RPM where there is higher than normal vibration.

Best of luck.

PS I have just finished re-building my marine version of the 1600cc Ford Fiesta Overhead Cam engine and got it running today, Unlike my crappy Volvo, this one has not a trace of smoke or fumes.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have struck a winner there, very pleased that all that work has had a good outcome, just wish mine would show the same incentive......., I am tied to a pontoon at the moment in the marina, and we are running the engine upand down the rev counter, just wish it would at least show some signs of decreasing the smoke.

Marsupial: as you can see from my other postings, the mariniser was Watermota, now Stephenson Marine, and I have tried asking them for the information ie camshaft number, to save time I am asking here, as I am due to leave the boat in 12 days and we would if possible, like the engine to be sorted before we fly back to the UK.

Derek
 
As Essexboy says the camshaft you have is a 1977 on. 8250 is the number for all camshafts and the suffix A would denote the variant of that particular camshaft. The variant is most likely to be in timing or lift - if there is indeed a variation. Only a parts list for 1977 will tell you whether there are any B, C etc. You may well then be able to deduce its characteristics by seeing which model used which variation. The Kent crossflow was still being used after 1977 in a variety of cars and commercial vehicles in different states of tune. If your engine was originally built prior to 1977 then the cam you have now is not original.

However, this may not help much as cams can be re-profiled after manufacture so knowing the original part number is only part of the story. It may well be that Watermota re-profiled the cam as part of the diesel conversion. Burton Engineering in Ilford is probably the best experts on crossflow engines and still as far as I know offer a range of cams. They are likely to have the records of profiles of different cams.

Hope this helps from another (ex) Essexboy and sometime tuner and blower up of these engines.
 
Thanks for the info Tranona, it makes me think we are getting somewhere, just the little bits of info adding together bit by bit. So far we have deduced the engine block was from 1977, probably a Kent,8250 is the number for camshafts it's only the last characters ?A to work out.As you say A is likely as not to be a variant number but what is the ? character I cant read! As for when the engine was built I can only guess it was after 1977 as the engine was bought from Watermota 14/5/1981. The valve timing for the engine is 17-51-51-17, from all this information, plus the original markings, ie 109E and blue band, maybe we are nearly there!! Thanks again Derek
 
Well at long last, Stephensons emailed me with the number, and it's totally different (105E-6250-B), still, they supplied the number so it will be right, now to find one here in Turkey, anyway thanks to all who helped stay tuned.
Derek
 
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