Was I in the wrong ??

[jon and michie]

I think this is a key question that hasn't been answered. if the dinghy is tacking along the river it will want to use as much space as possible. In a small highly manoeuvrable dinghy, there will be plenty of space amongst most moorings. so it is not uncontrolled. Also many small dinghies may be trying to keep out of the main channel so that they don't obscure it for other craft, ( although some are just knobs!)

I understand what you are saying but at Fambridge through the moorings there is no main channel and as I stated earlier he later came into the marina nearly hit other moored up Boats and in the process nearly hit the opposite bank although I found it quite amusing that he very nearly took a bashing from his boom.
Jon

 

[jac]

I understand what you are saying but at Fambridge through the moorings there is no main channel and as I stated earlier he later came into the marina nearly hit other moored up Boats and in the process nearly hit the opposite bank although I found it quite amusing that he very nearly took a bashing from his boom.
Jon

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems as if you are interpreting a lot of what this dinghy sailor did rather than calling out things that he did wrong.

He went through moorings as there was no other place to go yet is irresponsible for doing so; - Where else should he go?
He wasn't under control but he went close to moorings but didn't hit any of them or the moored boats: - seems ok to me and reasonably skillful so probably fully under control.
In the Marina he was close to other boats but didn't hit them:- seems ok and reasonably skillful.
He was nearly hit by the boom:- Have you seen the headroom in typical dinghy - he will know to duck when head to wind and the boom / sail will thrash around a lot whilst he is head to wind.

In short( Other looking at you strangely) he doesn't seem to have actually done anything? Yet you perhaps don't understand some of the things that he was doing so may not be best able to determine the extent to which he was in / out of control.

Equally - you gave way to a sailing boat as may have been required under IRPCS yet seem fussed / unconfident that you may have got it wrong when to all intents you seem to have got it right yet just lack in confidence.

I'm assuming you are fairly new to this so that's all understandable. Spend a bit of time learning the rules of the road and the stick to those and you won't go far wrong. You may well come across a bunch of knobs but don't let them spoil your time on the water and b confident in your own decisions!

 

[jon and michie]

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems as if you are interpreting a lot of what this dinghy sailor did rather than calling out things that he did wrong.

He went through moorings as there was no other place to go yet is irresponsible for doing so; - Where else should he go?
He wasn't under control but he went close to moorings but didn't hit any of them or the moored boats: - seems ok to me and reasonably skillful so probably fully under control.
In the Marina he was close to other boats but didn't hit them:- seems ok and reasonably skillful.
He was nearly hit by the boom:- Have you seen the headroom in typical dinghy - he will know to duck when head to wind and the boom / sail will thrash around a lot whilst he is head to wind.

In short( Other looking at you strangely) he doesn't seem to have actually done anything? Yet you perhaps don't understand some of the things that he was doing so may not be best able to determine the extent to which he was in / out of control.

Equally - you gave way to a sailing boat as may have been required under IRPCS yet seem fussed / unconfident that you may have got it wrong when to all intents you seem to have got it right yet just lack in confidence.

I'm assuming you are fairly new to this so that's all understandable. Spend a bit of time learning the rules of the road and the stick to those and you won't go far wrong. You may well come across a bunch of knobs but don't let them spoil your time on the water and b confident in your own decisions!

Yes jac I should be more confident in my decisions - what I will add to it is the 2 passengers he had with looked rather frightened to death - hence my deduction of not being fully in control and could of gone to more open waters approx 30metres away which would meant everyone could have seen him and anticipate his manoeuvres.
Jon

 

[tom52]

On the basis of the OPs description it sounds to me that all parties acted correctly within the limitations of their boats.
It may appear to someone who has never sailed, that a dinghy trying to make progress against the wind is out of control and sailing recklessly close to obstructions on either side of the river.
Equally sailors with no MOBO experience have no concept of the manouverability limitations of MOBOs at slow speeds and the different problems posed by single engine shaft, twin engine or outdrive(s) and outboards as well as hull types.

 

[rubberduck]

How the hell can a load of people voice opinions with no clue of the locality.
No you did absolutely nothing wrong short of not reporting him.

 

[jon and michie]

Thank you - rubberduck - as you know the area you can understand what I am trying to say.
I personally believe the more I think of it I wasn't in the wrong.
For fellow forumites - the guy in the dinghy wasn't trying to go from a to b via the moorings - he was just darting in and out of the moorings when he could of gone 30 meters in either direction which he would have been visible for all to see to play about more safely.
That said I do thank you all because it gives an insight from different perspectives
Jon

 

[jac]

Thank you - rubberduck - as you know the area you can understand what I am trying to say.
I personally believe the more I think of it I wasn't in the wrong.
For fellow forumites - the guy in the dinghy wasn't trying to go from a to b via the moorings - he was just darting in and out of the moorings when he could of gone 30 meters in either direction which he would have been visible for all to see to play about more safely.
That said I do thank you all because it gives an insight from different perspectives
Jon

IT must have been a tiny dinghy though if his sail wasn't visible over other boats and if so it may have felt unsafe to be away from others. Many dinghies only sail where there is safety boat cover as they can and do capsize regularly.so to be "in the wilds" may have been uncomfortable. If he was young, he may even have been banned by his parents from going past X for that reason -- the close presence of others makes people feel safe.

You also need to bear in mind that what looks like a tiny space from a big boat looks large from a tiny boat. SO from his perspective, he probably had loads of room to manoeuvre, lots of interesting boats to look at. Going away from the moorings looses that interest and he has as much right to play where he wants as the rest of us do. As long as everyone plays by the IRPCS and doesn't go making up there own rules then no cause for concern.

He was stand on vessel - you were give way. You gave way. You were in the right. If he doesn't like the way that you gave way then it's his problem, not yours. Don't beat yourself up over idiots. It's a simple fact that amongst moorings / anchored boats you will come across all sorts of things. People swimming, kayaking, paddling around in small tenders, falling off windsurfers etc. Stay alert, as slow as is safe and prepared to meet idiots and you won't go far wrong.

 

[rubberduck]

At these moorings the boats are tied up in lines, very tight lines, & stern to nose, again tight. Never seen any one swim , board or anything else there as the would be mad to to so. What we are talking about here is the same as a small child running into the road between parked cars, right in front of a car making progress, getting away with it & then repeating for the rest of the time she is allowed out. Except this is not a child, its a full grown idiot.

 

[SP2]

Before moving south and then west I did my time on the River Crouch out of what was then West Wick Marina. When we didn't take the mobo out I had a mirror dinghy for fun.

You did nothing wrong - you didn't hit him or anything else and you kept out of his way as far as you were able to do. Collision Regs ticked with honours. Whatever his intentions, whether he was sailing from A to B or X to Y or simply sailing back and forth because he could (or even if he was out of control) is entirely his "stuff" - as was his apparent reaction to you.

When we motored on my father's boat through the moorings off Upnor on the Medway most weekends in the 70's and 80's (and later out of Chatham Marina in my own boats in the 2000's) we would inevitably meet fleets of dinghies milling about to start racing. You simply did your best to avoid them and if you took their wind it was never intentional and the result of the necessity to take certain actions to avoid collisions.

Other users will react as they want to - you have no control over how they do. You can only be responsible for your own conduct and in this case you have passed with flying colours. Relax.

 

[bedouin]

I understand what you are saying but at Fambridge through the moorings there is no main channel and as I stated earlier he later came into the marina nearly hit other moored up Boats and in the process nearly hit the opposite bank although I found it quite amusing that he very nearly took a bashing from his boom.
Jon

Loads of "nearly"s - suggests to me that in fact he knew exactly what he was doing and was handling the dinghy very well. In a dinghy 6" clearance from a moored boat or the bank it plenty

When I am travelling through an area of moorings or narrow channel I would expect any dinghies to give plenty of room and would normally not give way to one.

 

[NealB]

I currently have: a 34 foot motor boat, a 35 foot sailing boat and and a sailing dinghy.

I have sailed for over 50 years, and on the River Crouch since the early 1960's.

It's impossible to be definite, when we have just one side of this story, but, tentatively, it seems to me:

1. The OP's actions were fine: you gave way, there was no collision, nothing was damaged, no-one was hurt

2. The small sailing boat was probably under full control. Beating through the moorings at Fambridge, in a small, handy boat, is not, generally, a big problem. There's plenty of room between moorings. I've done it many times over the years, and, as far as I am aware, I have never caused any near misses with motor boats.

I suspect that the OP's general boating inexperience, and his apparent total lack of knowledge about small sailing boats, might be causing him to misinterpret the situation.

 

[NealB]

When I am travelling through an area of moorings or narrow channel I would expect any dinghies to give plenty of room and would normally not give way to one.

I've been through Fambridge, in a cruising boat under engine, on many, many occasions, over many, many years.

It would never enter my head to think of it as a narrow channel. No problem to comply with the colregs, and give way to a small sailing boat.

It's never been a problem.

 

[jac]

I've been through Fambridge, in a cruising boat under engine, on many, many occasions, over many, many years.

It would never enter my head to think of it as a narrow channel. No problem to comply with the colregs, and give way to a small sailing boat.

It's never been a problem.

For tyhose of us that donlt know it, how wide are we talking about. From the OP's description it sounds like maybe a boat length - maybe 2 wide. I would agree - not a narrow channel but something a bit more specific would be useful.

 

[jac]

If it's this bit https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=51.63491040965403,0.6791567881651872&z=16 Then I struggle to see the issue. Looking at the footage from the yachthaven video, those yachts seem to be on swingers, not in trots but could be old I suppose. If they are buoys then a dinghy could happily weave in and out of those all day and not really cause any problem

I was expecting something narrower than this https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=50.8600084785458,-1.3103609849028998&z=16 where a typical mid 30's foot boat might only have 2 boat lengths between the moored boats and where the boats are basically a solid line with the just the occasional break to get through

Looking at fambridge - it looks like no more than 30-40 boats but maybe more on a busy day I guess. Seems plenty of space between the boats on their buoys - 3-4 boat lengths from the images. I'm struggling to see how two boats of any sort could have a major issue in such an open space???

 

[NealB]

If it's this bit https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=51.63491040965403,0.6791567881651872&z=16 Then I struggle to see the issue. Looking at the footage from the yachthaven video, those yachts seem to be on swingers, not in trots but could be old I suppose. If they are buoys then a dinghy could happily weave in and out of those all day and not really cause any problem

I was expecting something narrower than this https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=50.8600084785458,-1.3103609849028998&z=16 where a typical mid 30's foot boat might only have 2 boat lengths between the moored boats and where the boats are basically a solid line with the just the occasional break to get through

Looking at fambridge - it looks like no more than 30-40 boats but maybe more on a busy day I guess. Seems plenty of space between the boats on their buoys - 3-4 boat lengths from the images. I'm struggling to see how two boats of any sort could have a major issue in such an open space???

For some reason my old phone won't open your link, but your description sounds like you've got the right spot.

All swinging moorings .... plenty of room for a small, handy boat to sail safely.

 

[bedouin]

I've been through Fambridge, in a cruising boat under engine, on many, many occasions, over many, many years.

It would never enter my head to think of it as a narrow channel. No problem to comply with the colregs, and give way to a small sailing boat.

It's never been a problem.

I don't know the particular area - I was considering areas like Chichester where there is a narrow channel with tightly packed moorings on either side (not to mention loads of shallow bits ).

I think I was mislead by the OPs post - there are very few times, if any, that just reducing engine revs is an appropriate response in such situations as it takes too long to impact boat speed and to be seen - and to reduce collision risk. To me steering is (almost) always the correct action

 

[NealB]

I don't know the particular area - I was considering areas like Chichester where there is a narrow channel with tightly packed moorings on either side (not to mention loads of shallow bits ).

I think I was mislead by the OPs post - there are very few times, if any, that just reducing engine revs is an appropriate response in such situations as it takes too long to impact boat speed and to be seen - and to reduce collision risk. To me steering is (almost) always the correct action

I also know Itchenor very well.

If that's where you had in mind, I'd agree that space there is certainly much tighter than at Fambridge.

I'd still not call it a narrow channel (for me) though, or consider my boat to be restricted in ability to manoeuvre.

So I still can't really imagine not being able to give way to a small sailing boat there.

 

[bedouin]

I also know Itchenor very well.

If that's where you had in mind, I'd agree that space there is certainly much tighter than at Fambridge.

I'd still not call it a narrow channel (for me) though, or consider my boat to be restricted in ability to manoeuvre.

So I still can't really imagine not being able to give way to a small sailing boat there.

If you are proceeding upstream say 15' from the moored boats and a sailing dinghy appears from between them on your port bow what action can you reasonably take?

No room to alter course to port - not much scope to turn to starboard as that won't prevent collision - putting the engine in neutral will not slow you down enough, put it hard astern and the prop wash will leave you slewed across the channel.

Then add in the usual sunday afternoon procession of boats in both directions....

In such circumstances I am certainly a vessel in a narrow channel so the dinghies are required not to impede my passage - i.e. not to force me to take avoiding action when I cannot safely do so.

 

[NealB]

If you are proceeding upstream say 15' from the moored boats and a sailing dinghy appears from between them on your port bow what action can you reasonably take?

No room to alter course to port - not much scope to turn to starboard as that won't prevent collision - putting the engine in neutral will not slow you down enough, put it hard astern and the prop wash will leave you slewed across the channel.

Then add in the usual sunday afternoon procession of boats in both directions....

In such circumstances I am certainly a vessel in a narrow channel so the dinghies are required not to impede my passage - i.e. not to force me to take avoiding action when I cannot safely do so.

Surely, you'd see the sailing dinghy a few hundred yards before you need to take action.

They don't appear out of thin air do they?

 

[bedouin]

Surely, you'd see the sailing dinghy a few hundred yards before you need to take action.

They don't appear out of thin air do they?

Firstly the dinghy can easily be obscured by the moored boats. More importantly you cannot know the exact point at which the dinghy is going to tack so it is not possible to take action until the tack that actually puts him on a collision course with you.

Also I don't need to as colregs requires the dinghy not to impede my safe passage