Warping out of a marina berth

[beancounter]

A couple of weeks ago, I posted regarding some mishaps, including problems leaving a berth. One of the many helpful comments I received suggested warping out of the berth. I've been pondering this since then, and am still scratching my head as to how I would do it.

The scenario was this;

We were about half way down the pontoon. Our boat was berthed bows-in, port side to the finger pontoon, with another boat on our starboard side. Looking astern from our cockpit, at the pontoon opposite us and slightly to our left was a dredging barge, which left about one boats length of space to manoeuvre. The adjacent "bay" opposite, offset a little to the right looking astern, was empty.

Again looking astern, the wind was blowing from our left hand side, straight down the "aisle". This was also the direction of the exit. Our prop kicks the stern to starboard.

I made a pig's ear of it - how would the team have tackled this?

 

[BrendanS]

I'd put the boat up for sale, and advertise it with 'seatrials welcome'

When the punters arrive, tell them it's their seatrial, so totally in their hands. After you've watched say 10 other people try it, take your pick of the techniques that work best, and withdraw the boat from the market.

 

[beancounter]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[davidfox]

Could you have walked the boat back (presumeably the wind was blowing you on to the finger pontoon) to the end and then climbed aboard and let the prop walk turn you to starboard and then go out astern? or have i got it wrong?

 

[tome]

Roving fender stbd quarter to protect your neighbour from prop walk then out astern slowly until bow clear. Burst of ahead to stop her and then burst astern should swing yer bow to port assisted by wind and then reverse down aisle into wind, swinging her once clear of aisle

Make sure the boat is far enough clear before turning her at end of aisle so wind doesn't blow you on during turn

Did you try to exit ahead?

 

[Talbot]

difficult to give an answer without some experience of your boats viler handling qualities and knowledge of wind strength , ability to steer astern etc. I can certainly say what I would have done in my boat.

Going astern, my boat is very happy to come straight back into the wind. I would have reversed out and allowed her to get stern on to the wind, which would have meant I was about 2/3 of the way across to the other pontoons. by use of just enough stern power to maintain position, I would have allowed the boat to gently move to the middle of the gap between the pontoons and pointing at 90 degrees to where I had ben parked. This would allow me to either go ahead or astern out of the pontoons (depending on how your system is set up. If dredger was then astern of me, and that was the way I had to go, I would make a sternboard right out past the marina until I had the room to turn round.

 

[bluedragon]

I can envisage your situation, but too many unknowns to answer precisely. Two techniques I've used in tight situations with my long keeler a) walk the boat back to the end of the finger and turn her 90 deg. or end-for-end using warps, but you need room to do this and a long finger / short adjacent boats b) if you can get a line over to the opposite empty berth, then just pull her across with lines on stern and bow. At least with warps, helping hands and lots of fenders, its all under control and the risk of damage is low, but...if there's any wind strength to speak of (or current)...I think I might just stay put!

 

[Guest]

If it's really tight I'd walk her astern slightly so she's half sticking out (to make sure you clear your immediate neighbour to starboard). Then (assuming neighbour to starboard isn't much bigger than me and therefore not protruding too much) pull the bows into the pontoon either with a warp or just by hand, so that the stern is pointing slightly towards the wind. This means when you go astern the bow will be lifted cleanly off the pontoon instead of being pushed into it by the wind and rubbing your gelcoat off. Engaging astern will bring the stern straight into the wind in the space of a gnat's gonad what with the combination of prop walk and the tendency of the stern to weathercock into the wind. You probably won't even need to turn the rudder. Then straight up the alleyway of pontoons backwards.

 

[RupertW]

If I'm reading the scenario correctly then the problems both come from the boat heading down towards your neighbour, first because of the propwalk at the stern, then once the bow is free it will head downwind, leaving the stern facing upwind.

So, (if the boat or wind was too big for walking off), then I would probably start with a mid-line looped around a forward pontoon cleat and put the boat into reverse and see whether the mid-line alone could hold the boat against the finger.

Assuming it was then I'd untie everything else, apart from a loop from the bows round the cleat at the stern end of the finger. By gently letting the mid-line out and taking the slack off the bow line then the boat would reverse along the finger until the midline was alongside the stern, at which point I'd increase the throttle, release the mid-line and let out the bow line just enough to keep the bows from hitting the neighbour as the reverse continued. Wheel straight during the entire manouvre.

Once bows were clear then the wind would keep the bows downwind and I'd keep reversing until I was in the middle of the aisle facing the exit, go to neutral, then forward and off. If the wind wasn't strong enough to send the bows downwind, then I'd be under a lot less pressure and would do an 3(or 4, or 5) point turn.

Of course, at all points during the manouvre I would go with the the boat if it decided to behave differently, either to slot back into the berth, or reverse all the way out of the aisle.

 

[old_salt]

As said above the astern manoeuvre is the answer.
My comment is if you have not left your berth or entered it astern before.
Pick a good day not to strong a wind and an open space drop the sails and practise going astern in straight lines and turning and straiting up then controlled figure of eights astern on the engine when you have got you will wonder why you got so worried in the first place.

 

[kengill]

In similar situations with a hire boat that didn't steer at low speed i put a slip made with braid on braid from the stern onto the cleat at the end of the finger. using one crew member to walk out the boat until it was clear to turn the bows to starboard , they leapt aboard, I prepared to go full ahead ,I snubbed the line which smartly turned the boat through 90 degrees clockwise and straightened up with a hard burst of power to get us moving and up to steerage way. At the same time as the bows came in line with the exit the crew let the snubb go and smartly hauled it aboard so it didn't foul the prop.

Theer again I was some what sheltered in Jersey Marina.

If it had been blowing a hooly I'd have laid lines across the lane on slips to the end of those fingers so we could haul her out of the berth and position for the off before we let her head go. But it wasn't so i didn't

Fair winds

 

[Guest]

p.s.

if for any reason you muff up the angles and can't turn tightly enough before you get to the barge, then once out in the "alley" you just turn the boat without moving forward or backwards by locking the tiller to starboard/rudder to port (yes, the opposite of the way you want to turn) then using alternative brief blasts of astern and forward gear to turn the stern of the boat into the wind without moving either forwards or backwards. While giving the blast of astern prop walk and weather cock effect turn the stern towards the wind (and the rudder has no effect because the boat is dead in the water), and when engaging forward gear the brief effect of the propellor forcing water over the rudder will also kick the stern to starboard.

So in other words, scenario is for some reason you haven't turned tightly enough to clear the barge and you're heading astern straight into it. Push the tiller hard a-starboard and give a short hard blast of forward gear to stop the boat dead. Although the rudder wants to turn the stern to port, the water forced over the rudder by the prop will in fact kick the stern smartly to starboard. Before she gets any way ahead, give a burst of astern, still keeping the tiller locked as described. Propwash effect will again kick the stern to starboard. If that still hasn't done it, then give another brief blast of forward gear which will yet again kick the stern to starboard, all without moving from the spot.

 

[RupertW]

Re: p.s.

Nicely described. If I had to name one manouvre that transforms boat handling from something a bit scary and random to almost complete mastery, then it's that one.

Once you're no longer concerned about being across an aisle with just a few feet to spare at either end of the boat, then you can relax as you get out of most tight corners.

 

[bigwow]

I would have gone to the marina office and kicked off about how for the money they get off me, I should have enough room to get out and into my berth without a struggle.

 

[Guest]

Re: p.s.

It saved my bacon on many an occasion - really essential stuff on a boat like a Contessa with a longish keel and two bladed prop, which isn't at her most responsive when in astern. It has all sorts of applications - for example if you're trying to get into a pontoon berth where the alleyway isn't wide enough to turn into the berth, you can just overrun say 2 or 3 metres, turn the boat on a sixpence while stopping her dead in the water, and then ease her into the berth in a straight line at your leisure.

 

[old_salt]

Re: p.s.

Thats effectively how the MN do it.
But in reality with all the telegraph ringing: F Ahd. Stop.
F Astn. Stop. F Ahd. Stop. rarely did they get the revs.
But very well put.

 

[Benbow]

With a crew onboard, one interesting option is to use the headsail to spin the head downwind. If I read this right, your aim is to clear the bloke in the next berth and then get your stern up wind/bow downwind as fast as possible. The propwalk helps the tendency for your bow to blow off but you still risk going sideways down wind. You can however instantly align yourself downwind by simply having a crew on the fordeck holding a bit of headsail out. Once the head is blown off pile on the reverse (in bursts to avoid walking sideways). Leaving a bit of headsail shaking will help to keep you pointing downwind.

It's important that the crew understands what he is trying to achieve; it would help if he was a dighy sailor!

 

[beancounter]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you try to exit ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - tried to angle her slightly into the vacant berth, but the wind blew the bows around & we clonked the boat on the other side of the finger pontoon - i.e. on our port side /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[tome]

That's the problem in this situation. The bow is docile, sheltered whilst in the berth and all seems to be going to plan until it's exposed to the wind when it's mischief becomes apparent

Some good advice on here. One other thing when in doubt is to make sure every spare crew has a roving fender and is strategically positioned - saved my bacon a few times. Phew!

There but for the grace of god

 

[peterb]

One way that's fairly foolproof (provided that you have sufficient crew is to run a warp across to one of the fingers upwind of you on the opposite pontoon. Have someone on your boat holding the end of the warp, so that as you come out your stern is held up into the wind. Once your stern is clear your warp holder takes the warp up to your bow, allowing the stern to go downwind. If the stern gets too close to the opposite boats (or your dredger) a touch ahead will keep you clear. Once the wind has taken the stern downwind and straightened the boat, go out ahead, slipping the warp as you do so.

The problem with the method is that very few boats carry warps long enough to arrange as a doubled slip to the opposite pontoon, and anyway a long warp trailing from the bow while you are motoring out ahead has obvious disadvantages. So leave one crew member on the opposite pontoon to recover the warp, while you take the boat to a convenient hammerhead, fuelling berth or similar to recover crew and warp together. Cheating, but it works.

Incidentally, the loads in the warp are usually quite light, so that 8mm line is all that is required. We usually carry a line like that as a heaving line, and find it quite useful for this sort of job.