VZ 18

[prinex]

Hi all,

In my quest for a "better boat" I got offered a VZ 18 from 2002 (which is not advertised I think) which is absolutely spotless (I attach a engine room pic to give you an idea), the interior is even more impressive. 1700 hours on the MAN 820. The big issue we have is the owner went for a rather strange 2 cabins layout (that is the 2 cabins which are usually in the middle of the boat have been joined and there is no 3d bathroom). That means the final layout is 2 cabins only - and there is a 3d "bunk bed" cabin in the back of the boat, where the crew cabin also is - or better was as it has been turned into a storage etc - they share the same bathroom etc.

On top of that the "central" cabin has one bed per side. That is it does not have a queen size or such, just 2 bunk beds (probably larger than usual) and empty space in the middle.

"Splitting" the 2 cabins again is madness pure and basically impossible (as one should walk thru the bathroom to reach his cabin).

Now sadness apart: I was impressed I could walk into the engine room - one of the things I always wanted. And the feeling of robustness, care of detail etc - wonderful.

What is your opinion of the VZ 18 ? And is worth spending the extra $$ for a recent one (2002-2004) or a older one (there is a 1993 around) would still be a good boat - it does not look to me they changed much in that time. Or should I go for the spotless one (with the strange cabin) and try to go for a very low price (I think this one will be impossible to resell if I buy it but I could be wrong) ?

btw we went on a San Lorenzo 57 and we did not like it, maybe too much wood, we had been on a Squadron 58 and the San Lorenzo looked like a crypt in comparison so SL 57 / 62 are out of the question for now.

 

[Portofino]

Buy on condition .So judging from the pic it’s great .
As far as beds it’s got 6 if you shove a couple in the rear cabin any how .Sometimes being separated by the engines , ie different space is benefit .
Aside what we have done with a 4 bed 2 cabin boat is if 5 , one’s kipped in the convertible saloon berth .Or they simply in a nit so intrusive way put themselves up in a hotel and we day boat them .

Another rule buy the smallest boat that meets your needs within reason .

Depreciation.
Life s too short to micro manage residuals to the last €0.01 and always wonder what if ?
Buy what you want and sort out the “ OUT“ selling price at that time hopefully many years down the line after careful enjoyment .
I should know and do know exactly what folks say and mean with the cliche “ all boats are comprises “ .
The best thinking is simply write the cost off the thing from day 1 .If you come out , which you will with some €/£ then that’s a bonus .You don’t need a boat inho should funded out of real throw away income that you will not notice missing tied up floating plastic .
As it happened the things risen in value , was rising pre covid anyhow , but if the Italian gov ( it’s berthed in Italty ) confiscated it ….Ho hum Twas nice while it lasted etc .


But i always wanted an Itama , you just adapt into the boat .If I had bought something more common from a U.K. builder I would have always wondered……

Our friends are sufficiently brassed up to hotel it rather than want to live like us on the boat .We haven’t missed a proper 3 rd cabin .
We do go on little Med trips with Family , my son + daughter and there partners in a kinda give the kids ( in there twenties ) a holiday .I would never advise somebody to buy extra bedrooms / bathrooms in a boat for the very rare occasions you need them = use hotels .

Boils down to what YOU want to use it for ?
If the AZ 18 fits that ^^^ pattern then it’s a good one to buy .

 

[MapisM]

if the Italian gov ( it’s berthed in Italty ) confiscated it ….Ho hum Twas nice while it lasted

No worries Porto, you can trust me if I tell you that the IT Govt has much bigger fishes to fry, before coming to Loano and confiscate your boat.
Truth be told, I very much doubt they would bother even if you were a Russian oligarch! ?

 

[MapisM]

we had been on a Squadron 58 and the San Lorenzo looked like a crypt in comparison

I actually quite like the Sq58, but saying that the SL (even the 57, let alone the 62) is "a crypt" in comparison?!?
I mean, come on, is this a troll, or what?

That aside, good luck in asking an opinion here about a boat which I don't think was ever sold outside Italy - possibly not even outside Veneto, go figure!

 

[prinex]

I mean, come on, is this a troll, or what?

The sl57 i visited was in a poor shape, the wood gave this rotting smell, the owner did not wanted to open the curtains.. I guess this was what put us off completely.

I know is not a very common boat, there is a vz20 in portosole and a vz18 in imperia, someone told me they are very well built boats so the interest.

 

[MapisM]

Fairenuff, but there's a difference between saying that a particular boat is in a sad state and saying that a whole boat model looks like a crypt in comparison to another model which is actually smaller...!

Back to VZ, well built they certainly are: just to stick to the e/room, aside from its remarkable height, there are some details that you won't find in many other boats, like the switchable twin prefilters with vacuum gauge, the all-wet s/steel exhaust, the all-internal accessibility through w/tight door from the crew area, the structural sight gauge, the replicated engines controls, just to name but a few.
In fact, I did evaluate a couple of VZ18 before eventually buying a DP56, mainly because the latter, while a bit smaller, is actually large enough for our needs, and comparably well built. Besides, the size range in our search stretched from the Raffaelli Maestrale 52 up to the SL62, and if we would have eventually decided to go for the upper end of it, we would have preferred the SL to the VZ, though just for taste-related reasons, more than any technical considerations.

The main thing worth mentioning for the VZ18 (based on a chat I had with one of their former engineers, who seatrialed most if not all VZs) is that they were all powered either by the 820hp version of the MAN V10 initially, or by the 1050hp in the last years.
With pros and cons, because the latter brought to the table a power increase of almost 30% with no meaningful additional weight, hence improving the performance, but the former was the last 100% mechanical V10, widely considered as a bulletproof workhorse and obviously not prone to electronic glitches as the semi-electronic 1050 is.
For this reason, AOTBE my personal preference would have been for the 820, but according to that VZ chap the boat is much more lively with the 1050, so I can only suggest to seatrial the boat and see if you are happy with her performance (something you should do anyhow, with any boat).
Just for reference, the SL62, whose size is very similar, was also MAN powered, but with the 1100hp V12.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I agree with all that Mapis said.

VZ actually sold well in all of Italy, altough 60% of sales was in the NE. I know for sure that up until 2002 they could not build more then three a year of them. Production of the 18 started in 93 and lasted till 2005, replaced or better to say the model evolving into the 64.
I think the VZ is in some aspects better then the SanLorenzo 62, crew cabin being one but also some other details.
What SL was better is the quality and detail of the finishing, it looksed and still is a pun above the rest. In those days, the Viareggio yards seemed like in other category when it comes how they fitted the interiors.
Both are semi-custom but most VZ where finished in cherry Mahogany wood, SL was more flexible in this regard, while the VZ18 had like four or five lower deck options off which two where four cabins options.
The SL62 had minor tweaks to the interior like making the guest cabins in double berths or three berths (one bunk), and an open galley layout could be made.
I think they told me they made one 62 in that way for a North American customer.

I think VZ 18 give more in speed terms then a Sanlorenzo 62, as she was a lighter boat compared to the SL and also slimmer, and a bit shorter.

If I remember well they made about thirty VZ18. One of the first Nuvolari Lenard designs, and one of the prettiest declared by many as boat of the show at Genova Boat Show 1993.

 

[prinex]

Mapi looks like we are evaluating the same kind of boats.

Sl57 you need to open a hatch climb down to enter the engine room, the one I look at had a huge aircon unit blocking access to everywhere - it was a holiday home basically.

For me just the option of being able to just walk down stairs open a door and check the engines without having to dislodge the table / guests etc and without crawling around is such a bonus - this year I strained my back diving head-down between the Engines of the primatist to replace a bilge pump, Literally 20cm space 1.40 down. One of the reasons I'm selling the primatist.

Also the 4th cabin + crew cabin another plus for my wife, in case some guests come with a friend.

Thanks you andp pyb for the feedback now just have to find a nice one.

 

[MapisM]

Yup, in terms of size and type (flybridge) I think you are pretty much looking at boats similar to the ones (almost 80!) that I evaluated a few years ago.
Though eventually, as I said, we decided to stick to the principle that Portofino previously mentioned (and on which I claim paternity, btw!), i.e. go for the smaller boat which is just large enough for your needs, rather than the larger one you can afford.
The premise being that all boats are headaches, so it's the smallest possible headache that you want, rather than the largest!
In fact, I also came across this much larger boat, which back then could be bought for a price in the same ballpark of the DP56 that I eventually bought.
And since my boat usage was going to be for living aboard most of the time, it's rather obvious that such floating villa would have been fantastic, if it weren't that I didn't want to compromise on the "headache" principle...!

Back to the point, yes, the e/r access of the VZ18 is the best in class, bar no other boat, also larger ones.
So, if that's important to you, finding anything better is practically impossible.
Even the SL62, whose place among the very best boats of her size is undisputed, is actually similar to the 57 in this respect, with the e/r access through a cockpit hatch.

 

[prinex]

Not that the dp56 (alnair) is so much smaller than a vz18 or a sl62 but of course why getting a bigger one if you can do with a smaller one.

Someone suggested the Maine 530 to me, considering that I do 10kn cruising and the oomps are only there for when we mess up the weather or just want to get home.

 

[MapisM]

Actually, the DP56 was called Asterion, not Alnair.
In fact, all DP models were named after a star, and Asterion was the star they picked for the flybridge models.
Alnair was used for a very peculiar series of boats, arguably well ahead of their time, of which only a few were built.
There were two models, the 43 and the 55, both with hardtop in one piece with the side windows, which could slide backward making them either fully open or fully enclosed boats, at a push of a button.
A very remarkable solution in many ways, but for living aboard in the Mediterranean a flybridge is quite simply impossible to beat.
If I understood your requirements, the DP flybridge ("Asterion") models that you could consider are the 55, 56 and 59.
All with 3 ensuite cabins+crew, but none of them can touch the VZ18 in terms of e/r accessibility and height.

The Maine 530, as well as all the other pseudo-trawlers/navettas which became fashionable in recent years, is a category of boats that I don't like at all.
Their problem is that they are neither meat nor fowl, with a mediocre behavior at displacement speed, that becomes awful and very inefficient at planing speed. And most of them (Maine included) are poorly built with the cheapest components, in spite of their wannabe blue water cruiser appearance.
BTW, I'm not saying this because I don't like slow cruising - quite the opposite: before buying the DP, I owned for no less than 17 years a true displacement trawler, wooden built by Cantiere Azzurro (which is even less known than VZ, outside of Italy!).
I cruised thousands of miles with her, 98% of the time at 8 knots, and the remaining 2% at 9 knots, when I was in a hurry.
BUT, she burned less than 2 litres per nautical mile, and being equipped with fin stabilizers, we could cook/sleep/have a shower while cruising, in almost all sea conditions.
The main drawback, as for all timber boats, was the maintenance required.
That, together with the fact that nowadays I'm not crunching many miles anymore (since where I'm based there's a choice of great anchorages just round the corner), were the triggers of my choice to go for a plastic boat.
And among them, I would have loved to replace the Azzurro with a Northern Marine 57 for instance, but paying her almost three times the price of a DP56 (which is a solid boat anyhow, and whose interiors are in some ways even better) was beyond a joke.
Hence the choice of a planing boat, even if she fully comes into her own when cruising above 20 kts, 25 being even better!

 

[prinex]

Thanks for your insight, Asterion 55 like this one DALLA PIETA' DP 55' Asterion Fly -2 - 1996 for example - nice boat and lots of value for that price.

 

[MapisM]

Yep, she looks in good nick from the pics, and the asking price is quite reasonable.
I know that model like the back of my hand, because my 56 is essentially the same boat internally, the main differences being:
1) a lengthened hull astern, supporting a larger swim platform with a huge storage space underneath, and
2) a different flybridge layout, with a reverse slanted windscreen and no crane in the 56, where the passerelle can be used (as opposed to the hidden one in the 55) also for launching the tender from the swim platform.
A boat that works just fine for myself and my wife, who are living aboard her for at the very least 6 months/year, with a few occasional guests.

But mind, while she's one of the most comfortable among all sub-60 feet flybridges (for instance, none of her competitors have an ensuite head in BOTH guest cabins: Fer 57, AZ55, VZ 16/56, Aicon 56, Princess 57, Squadron 55/58, Manhattan 56... You name it!), she's definitely smaller than the VZ18.
Don't be fooled by the length of less than 18m that you might see in some ads, probably taken by the registration numbers, based on the usual tricks.
The VZ18 is actually closer to 19m, and also beamier and higher, and this affects the whole boat, not only the beautiful e/r and crew area astern.

BTW, this is the only point on which I slightly disagree with the previous comment from PYB: I'm not sure about the displacement (and can't be arsed to look for actual numbers), but I'm pretty sure that the size is VERY similar to the SL62, in spite of the "18" designation, which would literally translate into 59 feet. In fact, even the DP59, which is the very last evolution of the DP 55/56 hull, is still smaller than the VZ18.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

BTW, this is the only point on which I slightly disagree with the previous comment from PYB: I'm not sure about the displacement (and can't be arsed to look for actual numbers), but I'm pretty sure that the size is VERY similar to the SL62, in spite of the "18" designation, which would literally translate into 59 feet. In fact, even the DP59, which is the very last evolution of the DP 55/56 hull, is still smaller than the VZ18.

Yes VZ18 is a much bigger boat to a Dalla Pieta 55/56 and or 59, as all the other boats mentioned by Mapis.

The VZ18 is 63/64feet overall, as much as the Sanlorenzo 62 is like 65 feet. These are big boats and all feel more big Yachtie.
The cool thing about the VZ is that she was made to feel in looks and layout a bit more like a smaller boat.
For example on the aft deck of the VZ18 you feel in it, while on the SL62 you feel on top of it.
The tender was designed to stay on the bathing platform, while the Viareggio boats of the time always had it on the flybridge.
Details like this.

Even if you go on Ferretti 175/62, Azimut 62, Sunseeker 62, they feel smaller to the VZ in many aspects.

 

[MapisM]

Absolutely correct, W. There is also another VZ18 peculiarity which is worth mentioning:
The boat was never built with a hi-lo swim platform, but her fixed platform is completely overhanging off the stern, in contrast with most competitors, including all DPs, Ferrettis, SLs, FL, Prinny, and also others, whose swim platforms are structurally concurrent with the hull bottom.

Now, if you don't care about a hi-lo platform (which back in those days was unheard of, with the exception of the Manhattan 56, whose implementation was awful anyhow), obviously it's better to have a longer hull extended under the swim platform, rather than an overhanging one like in the VZ18.

So, in this respect, the VZ18 is a bit of a curate's egg: on one hand, it misses the opportunity to have a longer hull within her actual LOA size, but OTOH, it's an excellent base for retrofitting a hi-lo platform, for anyone interested.
No right or wrong on that - each to their own, of course!

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

When the VZ 18 arrived in 1993, very few boat builders beside Ferretti (who invented it) where offering extended Bathing Platforms.
There was Baia who just started doing around 91, and Itama more or less the same year.

The British started doing it in 1995 with Fairline being the first with the Squadron 47 becoming the 50, and the 56 the 59. It was an overhang at the time.
Sunseeker will start also in 1995 extending the platform of new 53 Manhattan (updated 52 Carribean) to become the 54.
And Princess will start in 1996. The 53 becoming the 56, 420 to 430, and 440 to 460 etc.
Azimut will do it in 1996 first with 46 model, and then update its older models (50 becomes 52, 54 becomes the 58 Full etc)

But yes an up and down retrofit on a VZ18 is not that difficult to make.

Ferretti started the extended bathing platform in 1985 with the 46/49 Altura, its new presented flagship in Genova of that year.
They also made another game changing invention in the same year inventing the tender garage with 35 Portorotondo model.

 

[prinex]

There is a vz20 down here in portosole (which I think is also for sale but really too big for me) - looks built strong as a warship. Just towering over the other boats.