VP2003 Gremlin

[kacecar]

Hello.

First outing for the boat in quite a while yesterday. The engine failed to start at the end so I have a few queries.

Almost everything on the boat worked as expected but towards the end of a few hours motoring the rev counter was dead and couldn't be revived by tapping or jiggling connections - the engine was running fine though and stopped normally when it came time to sail. After sailing back to the mooring I attempted to start the engine but it appeared there was no power to the control panel. The batteries were fine and a rushed look in the engine bay and at the back of the panel failed to reveal anything obviously loose or broken. Things then got busy for a while, as I concentrated on sailing us back to the mooring, getting off the boat and then the long drive home. Having had time to reflect on the days events, I now realise that in my mind I automatically linked the rev counter issue with the lack of power to the control panel and so had missed properly checking that the stop switch was pushed fully home - dohhh!

My current thinking is that when I next get down to the boat (several days away) I need to check the stop switch, then the power to the panel, then the ignition switch itself and after that I have pretty much no idea. The rev counter problem might be entirely separate. My questions to the forum are:
a) I can't remember the effect of the stop switch - if not properly pushed back home after stopping the engine would there be power to the control panel?
b) I believe the stop switch involves a solenoid - where is it on the VP2003 (raw water cooling just in case that makes a difference)?
c) Where on the VP2003 is the sender for the rev counter?

Thanks in adavance for any ideas. I will respond as appropriate but I'm afraid I'm going to be off line for a day or so my responses might be a bit slow.

 

[Sandy]

I have a VP2002, the stop switch is a mechanical device that cuts the fuel to the engine.

The ignition switch turns off the electrics.

 

[pvb]

The stop control is purely mechanical, no electrical connections, no solenoid.

The rev counter works on a signal from terminal W on the alternator.

One thing you should check is the fuse on the engine. Above the alternator you'll find a plastic box with several fused links in it. A wire fits on to one link - if that fuse has blown, you can swap the wire to the next fused link. Naturally, if the fuse has blown, you'll need to investigate why.

 

[VicS]

What Sandy says ( and pvb)
Unless your engine is the SOLAS version or has had an electrically operated stop system added (which probably would not have operated either) it is purely mechanical

That being so go back to your original line of thinking and investigate the probable loss of power to the control panel .......... maybe just the ignition switch

( if the (key) switch is at fault you should be able to get a suitable replacement from Furneaux Riddall at much less than VP prices )

 

[duncan99210]

As Sandy says, the 2003 engine stop is a mechanical setup: pull the black (usually) tee handle to stop the engine, push it back in to be ready to start the engine again. The on/off switch in the panel only affects the electrics. However, your description of the tacho going dead and then being unable to start the engine is typical of a fault in the connections between the engine and the panel. Best thing to do is to make sure the engine main switch is on, then start fault finding in the harness between the engine and the panel.
There are usually two multi way plug and sockets: one by the engine, one by the panel. Check that these are properly connected, then start checking individual connections in the panel. Take your time and you will probably find the loose wire causing the problem.

 

[Tintin]

I used to have a similar problem with my VP2003. Sometimes the rev counter would work, sometimes not. Sometimes it would be fine, then I'd look down and discover it had stopped.

Sometimes a good hard rev got it going, sometimes not.

It took 4 years to solve, and am still not fully sure what the problem was, but the past 2 years have been fine, so here is what I did...


As PVB says, check those fuses, I cleaned the terminals off but it made no difference.

There is a multi way connector just aft of the fuses for the control panel loom. Carefully disconnect it, clean it, and check the pins and sockets. I had 2 that looked as if they were pushing in so very carefully removed the pins and opened up the pin barbs. I managed to damage the locking ring so it is now glued in place.

Do the same at the control panel end.

I also rebuilt the control panel from component level - the circuit diag used to be here but isn't anymore - Superheated iirc did similar.

I checked and rechecked all the terminal connections.... starter motor, alternator, connection to sensors etc.... several times.

I started to notice the charging volts would spike occasionally so checked again the alternator and regulator - all fine.

Checked all battery connections, VSR's, and 0v to engine block - all fine.

But still the overcharging (like 18v according to my meter!!) would happen once the batteries were fully charged, and the rev counter would go on strike.

I must have checked the alternator connections and regulator 5 times in those years, and took it for testing several times, all OK.

Long story short, the connection studs on the alternator were loose under the back cover.

Since they have been tightened and locktited everything has been fine.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Bilgediver]

Check the fuse on the engine. It is a self contained plastic box with 4 fuse elements and it supplies electric power to engine electrics and panel. The terminals are subject to corrosion so cleaning and copper greasing works but best solution is to get a screw terminal version . Many Volvo installations suffer from this. Theis fuse is sometimes mounted off the engine near the panel and is translucent plastic about 50mm. X. 50mm. X. 12mm thick wit 4 spades at each end. Only one or two are in use so the others are available spares.

 

[MoodySabre]

When you stopped then engine did the alarm sound before you turned the key off? If not then the likely problem is a disconnect one side or other of the engine fuse as mentioned above.
I also recommend a good squirt of WD40 down the keyhole to make sure it goes back properly and connects the rev counter.

 

[scottie]

Check your alternator drive belt

 

[Bilgediver]

When you stopped then engine did the alarm sound before you turned the key off? If not then the likely problem is a disconnect one side or other of the engine fuse as mentioned above.
I also recommend a good squirt of WD40 down the keyhole to make sure it goes back properly and connects the rev counter.

If the fuse fails when running the rev counter stops too

 

[kacecar]

Thanks everyone - just what I needed to know:
a) The stop switch is mechanical, not electric. This is good and bad news. Good that I didn't need to check it anyway and bad that the problem is deeper seated.
b) Stop solenoid. As established at (a) above, the VP2003 doesn't have one at all.
c) The rev counter sensing is driven by the alternator.

Several of you mentioned the engine fuse. I should have said that I checked this at the time and all fuses in the box were intact (still are I hope) and the wires in and out seemed properly connected both sides - still, a good place to start with a multimeter though. The alternator belt was in position and appeared to be OK - no signs of unexpected wear or slip. When I stopped the engine there was no alarm noise - I didn't notice at the time (too pleased to be sailing) but, yes, another sign of a dead panel.

The consensus appears to be it's a duff connection somewhere between the alternator and the panel. Next time I'm on he boat (next week sometime) I'll set about an appropriately painstaking check of the connections and plugs from fuse box to panel to ignition switch and out again.

Thanks again for the advice and guidance so far. I'm afraid I might need more!

 

[Tintin]

Thanks everyone - just what I needed to know:
a) The stop switch is mechanical, not electric. This is good and bad news. Good that I didn't need to check it anyway and bad that the problem is deeper seated.
b) Stop solenoid. As established at (a) above, the VP2003 doesn't have one at all.
c) The rev counter sensing is driven by the alternator.

Several of you mentioned the engine fuse. I should have said that I checked this at the time and all fuses in the box were intact (still are I hope) and the wires in and out seemed properly connected both sides - still, a good place to start with a multimeter though. The alternator belt was in position and appeared to be OK - no signs of unexpected wear or slip. When I stopped the engine there was no alarm noise - I didn't notice at the time (too pleased to be sailing) but, yes, another sign of a dead panel.

The consensus appears to be it's a duff connection somewhere between the alternator and the panel. Next time I'm on he boat (next week sometime) I'll set about an appropriately painstaking check of the connections and plugs from fuse box to panel to ignition switch and out again.

Thanks again for the advice and guidance so far. I'm afraid I might need more!

Does it happen when your batteries are low?

 

[VicS]

Thanks everyone - just what I needed to know:

The consensus appears to be it's a duff connection somewhere between the alternator and the panel. Next time I'm on he boat (next week sometime) I'll set about an appropriately painstaking check of the connections and plugs from fuse box to panel to ignition switch and out again.

Thanks again for the advice and guidance so far. I'm afraid I might need more!

Between the battery and the panel to be more precise

Check for power ........... use a test lamp rather than a digital multimeter because a digital meter takes so little current that it will give a normal reading even through a bad connection and is guaranteed to make fool of you sooner or later ... don't ask!

all along the route high lighted in the diagrams attached. From battery to isolator, to big terminal on starter solenoid, to starter rely, to fuses and to pin 1 on multipin connector

and in the panel from multipin connector to ignition switch

 

[kacecar]

Thanks VicS for clarifying and adding so much detail - really useful, thanks. As you suggest, I'll equip myself with a suitable test lamp.

Comrade Red, I can't say that the fault happens with low batteries as it's a new fault that arose while running on Wednesday and, for the moment at least, both the house bank and engine batteries appear to be in good condition and a good state of charge. Thanks for your earlier saga of the four-year search for the source of your tacho problem - I've have a couple of occasional but non-critical faults on my boat that have been around much longer than that but with no sign of a solution (so perhaps I should set myself more aggressive targets). In contrast to your four years, I hope that armed as I now am with the ideas and detailed information you and others have provided, my quest for panel power will be over much sooner.

Thanks again.

 

[ditchcrawler]

My 2003 failed to start one day. I checked as much as I could but to no avail. A friendly electrician came and found that the exciter lead from the switch panel to the alternator had come adrift. A simple push back onto the terminal at the back of the switch panel and away she went.

I didn't even know I had an exciter lead. What do I know. Not a lot but getting better.

 

[VicS]

My 2003 failed to start one day. I checked as much as I could but to no avail. A friendly electrician came and found that the exciter lead from the switch panel to the alternator had come adrift. A simple push back onto the terminal at the back of the switch panel and away she went.

I didn't even know I had an exciter lead. What do I know. Not a lot but getting better.

That is the warning light connection. The warning light current provides the initial excitation , or field current , without which the alternator wont start to generate

However this wont have been the reason for being unable to start the engine. More likely it was the wire which supplies power to the panel

 

[kacecar]

Finally got down to the boat yesterday after a combination of lockdown, family and weather made an earlier visit impractical. Based on everyone's advice, and equipped with a test light, it only took an hour or so to find the problem - the biggest challenge I had (I have many) was how to rig up the test circuit when checking long bits of loom.

Turns out the problem was in the female bit of the multi-plug at the engine end of the loom between the engine and the control-panel. These plugs are plastic and the material seems quite weak after more than thirty years so whatever locking mechanism they were originally fitted with has long since disappeared (so I try not to touch them too often), but this wasn't a problem with the plug coming loose. The main power wire was loose on its pin inside the plug. I couldn't work out how to access the pin so contented myself with slightly deforming the female fitting on the end of the wire and pushing it back into place - it hasn't fallen off before so hopefully it will stay there for a long time, and when it does fall off again I know both the symptoms and the quick fix. Perhaps I'll work out, some time in the future, how to make the remedy more permanent.

Thanks everyone for the ideas, advice and guidance. This forum is a really useful resource.

 

[RIBW]

....Turns out the problem was in the female bit of the multi-plug at the engine end of the loom between the engine and the control-panel. These plugs are plastic and the material seems quite weak after more than thirty years so whatever locking mechanism they were originally fitted with has long since disappeared

I am not sure I am reading your report correctly but here's a little info on the loom connector that might help in the future.
I replaced one of the locking rings last year without using the press technique recommended by TE. See RS Stock No. 669-3232 TE. Part No. 213810-1 . It cost <£2.

..... The main power wire was loose on its pin inside the plug.

If in the future you need to remake the connection, Investigate something like RS Stock 238123 and its male equivalent. The main body part number is TE206037-1.

I was adding instrumentation to the engine and although the loom was fully fitted with 16 conductors, I had to add pins to the engine and panel mating halves.

Cheers
Bob

 

[kacecar]

Thanks RIBW, that is really useful information.

When I found the loose connection I could see the round, crimped connector on the wire but couldn't see what was inside the plug and was guessing about how the connection actually worked. I thought there must be some sort of pin in there but, from the look of the part you pointed me at, I was wrong.

I think I might add "rebuild the multi-plugs" to next winter's job list, although if it gives me more problems in what's left of the season I might have to attempt it earlier.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[Elemental]

Weird, last weekend I had exactly the same issue as @kacecar - same symptoms everything.

Same solution too/ Must a generic VP2003 issue that manifests after 27 years!