VP MD202B - No compression

[drydog]

OK Vic. I'm trying to get into my head what else may be wrong without committing to that additional expense.
My concern is apart from his timing check, he's taking the advice from a local non-engineer that the timings correct.

In his shoes, I would have a knowledgeble diesel mechanic look at the timing before any stripping.

But thats my view.

 

[PaulRainbow]

A compression test at this juncture is meaningless. If the compression is down it could be because the timing is out, a/some valves are bent, a piston/pistons have been damaged. In fact, almost any of the possibilities discussed in this thread.

Engine was running fine, with an oil leak >> engine is dismantled to fix the leak >> engine is reassembled but will not start and has no compression = engine has not been correctly assembled.

If the valve timing is correct (and has always been so), the valves won't be bent (they weren't bent before). The rings didn't break or wear up while the engine was on the bench. The head gasket didn't fail on the bench. Therefore the engine will start on the easy start. The fact that it doesn't and the compression seems down must surely mean the valve timing is out.

I'm a bit confused (don't have time to fully analyze 9 pages of posts so may have missed something) by Gary insisting the timing is correct but also saying there are no marks on the new pully ? Or, is he saying there is a timing mark that aligns with another pulley but no TDC mark ?

If the timing marks on all pulleys are absolutely 100% certainly correct, compare the markings on the old and new pulleys, making sure the keys and the marks are in the same places.

 

[PaulRainbow]

In his shoes, I would have a knowledgeble diesel mechanic look at the timing before any stripping.

But thats my view.

I agree.

A head strip at this stage tells you nothing that a timing check, valve clearance check and compression check (in that order) won't tell you.

 

[VicS]

A compression test at this juncture is meaningless. If the compression is down it could be because the timing is out, a/some valves are bent, a piston/pistons have been damaged. In fact, almost any of the possibilities discussed in this thread.

Engine was running fine, with an oil leak >> engine is dismantled to fix the leak >> engine is reassembled but will not start and has no compression = engine has not been correctly assembled.

If the valve timing is correct (and has always been so), the valves won't be bent (they weren't bent before). The rings didn't break or wear up while the engine was on the bench. The head gasket didn't fail on the bench. Therefore the engine will start on the easy start. The fact that it doesn't and the compression seems down must surely mean the valve timing is out.

I'm a bit confused (don't have time to fully analyze 9 pages of posts so may have missed something) by Gary insisting the timing is correct but also saying there are no marks on the new pully ? Or, is he saying there is a timing mark that aligns with another pulley but no TDC mark ?

If the timing marks on all pulleys are absolutely 100% certainly correct, compare the markings on the old and new pulleys, making sure the keys and the marks are in the same places.

What he is saying is that the timing marks on the crankshaft gear, the intermediate gear and the cam shaft gear are aligned as shown in the diagram in the workshop manual( and below)

All this talk about a TDC mark is a red herring. As far as we know there is no TDC mark. It was something dropped into the discussion by someone who had not bothered to research the details of the engine properly and has caused nothing but confusion ever since.

 

[PaulRainbow]

What he is saying is that the timing marks on the crankshaft gear, the intermediate gear and the cam shaft gear are aligned as shown in the diagram in the workshop manual( and below)

All this talk about a TDC mark is a red herring. As far as we know there is no TDC mark. It was something dropped into the discussion by someone who had not bothered to research the details of the engine properly and has caused nothing but confusion ever since.

Thanks for clarifying that Vic.

The timing marks do look pretty foolproof, which is why i wonder if the replacement pulley has the marks in the correct place ?

 

[VicS]

Thanks for clarifying that Vic.

The timing marks do look pretty foolproof, which is why i wonder if the replacement pulley has the marks in the correct place ?

The marks are on the gears inside the timing case

The pulley is the external pulley for the alternator and coolant pump drive belt.

 

[pvb]

The timing marks do look pretty foolproof, which is why i wonder if the replacement pulley has the marks in the correct place ?

Replacement pulley? That has nothing to do with timing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The marks are on the gears inside the timing case

The pulley is the external pulley for the alternator and coolant pump drive belt.

Replacement pulley? That has nothing to do with timing.

Didn't realise it was the external pulley.

That not withstanding, if the valve timing is correct it should fire, or even run, on the EasyStart.

 

[RichardS]

All this talk about a TDC mark is a red herring. As far as we know there is no TDC mark. It was something dropped into the discussion by someone who had not bothered to research the details of the engine properly and has caused nothing but confusion ever since.

Lol ..... fancy meeting you Vic.

It would be laughable were it not for the fact that your childish efforts to disparage my contributions always end up with me feeling uneasy because I'm not proud about shooting fish in a barrel. I'm sure that you're probably a nice chap so I really don't understand what this silly vendetta is all about.

On the other hand, maybe I'm trying, as I have noticed I often do, to twist an incorrect answer to make out it was really correct in the first place.

Richard

 

[VicS]

Didn't realise it was the external pulley.

That not withstanding, if the valve timing is correct it should fire, or even run, on the EasyStart.

Unless of course "something" happened while the engine was partly dismantled that resulted in damage to some of the valves.

 

[drydog]

Lol ..... fancy meeting you Vic.

It would be laughable were it not for the fact that your childish efforts to disparage my contributions always end up with me feeling uneasy because I'm not proud about shooting fish in a barrel. I'm sure that you're probably a nice chap so I really don't understand what this silly vendetta is all about.

On the other hand, maybe I'm trying, as I have noticed I often do, to twist an incorrect answer to make out it was really correct in the first place.

Richard

WTF?
All I'm trying to do is help identify a problem for someone who is trying to fix his engine.
Could you take your willy waggling and 'previous' issues somewhere else?

 

[RichardS]

WTF?
All I'm trying to do is help identify a problem for someone who is trying to fix his engine.
Could you take your willy waggling and 'previous' issues somewhere else?

Is you name Vic? If so, my comment was not aimed at you. Apologies.

If not, then I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Richard

 

[pvb]

It seems the thread is deteriorating, without any solution being found to the OP's problem. Frankly, as he's been messing about with this engine for 4 months now, and has finally taken the wise decision to get a "proper man" to look at it, I think we might just wait until he reports back (as he promised 2 days ago in post 60).

 

[drydog]

Is you name Vic? If so, my comment was not aimed at you. Apologies.

If not, then I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Richard

No absolutely, I was responding to your little rant. How helpful was your post?
If I wanted to sprout bollocks and have a laugh or have a dig, then I would have taken it away to the bilge or wherever..
Have your cheap dig at Vic as you obviously have previous.,
Just don't come back at me all condecending asking if I have miss quoted you instead of Vic.
I'm not part of anyones argument.
I'm just trying to help the OP.
Are we clear?

 

[Heckler]

It seems the thread is deteriorating, without any solution being found to the OP's problem. Frankly, as he's been messing about with this engine for 4 months now, and has finally taken the wise decision to get a "proper man" to look at it, I think we might just wait until he reports back (as he promised 2 days ago in post 60).

Exactly, as I explained to him, we are all assuming that the "basics" are correct, we notice them subconciously as we are fixing engines. As Vic has said, he may have turned the engine slightly or something like that that has damaged the valves slightly before he has got it right. We experts would know that something wrong was going on but he hasnt. It is very difficult to diagnose at a distance. Vic has the right approach, very methodical and logical. Some of us DO indulge in willy waving and adopt entrenched atitudes. Lets wait and see what an on the job expert comes up with and then we can all go yaboo hiss!
Stu

 

[RichardS]

No absolutely, I was responding to your little rant. How helpful was your post?
If I wanted to sprout bollocks and have a laugh or have a dig, then I would have taken it away to the bilge or wherever..
Have your cheap dig at Vic as you obviously have previous.,
Just don't come back at me all condecending asking if I have miss quoted you instead of Vic.
I'm not part of anyones argument.
I'm just trying to help the OP.
Are we clear?

No! :encouragement:

Richard

 

[VicS]

It seems the thread is deteriorating, without any solution being found to the OP's problem. Frankly, as he's been messing about with this engine for 4 months now, and has finally taken the wise decision to get a "proper man" to look at it, I think we might just wait until he reports back (as he promised 2 days ago in post 60).

Good idea.

I thought I was patiently explaining some of the history to Paul, turn my back for few minutes to feed the cat and come back to find Ricahrd and Drydog fighting in the middle of the floor.

 

[drydog]

Good idea.

I thought I was patiently explaining some of the history to Paul, turn my back for few minutes to feed the cat and come back to find Ricahrd and Drydog fighting in the middle of the floor.

I'll stop being outraged on your behalf then.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Unless of course "something" happened while the engine was partly dismantled that resulted in damage to some of the valves.

Which is why i said

If the valve timing is correct (and has always been so), the valves won't be bent (they weren't bent before). The rings didn't break or wear up while the engine was on the bench. The head gasket didn't fail on the bench. Therefore the engine will start on the easy start. The fact that it doesn't and the compression seems down must surely mean the valve timing is out.

Gary has consistently said he didn't turn any shafts though, he also said the valve clearances are correct.

Another test for bent valves is to ensure the valve gear for a particular valve is in the closed position and fill the port with diesel. If the valve is bent enough to cause a catastrophic loss of compression then the diesel will vanish in a hurry.

IMO, the timing is either out or the valves are bent, nothing else makes sense.

 

[drydog]

PR, your'e getting ahead of yourself old chap.
In order to fill the chamber (if it's domed and not recessed in the piston) the head has to be off.
We are still at the pre-strip haggling stage in order to save costs.