Visit to Bridge of 110,000 Ton Tanker ... pics and some details ..

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If you can make out all that detail at night, and give accurate position, course etc, then you are bloody good. Most small yachts and powerboats would never get near that level of info for the simple reason you can't give that level of info until far too close.

Not sure where you boat, but English Channel is not a great place to start trying to second guess which boat you are actually talking to on VHF
 
A lot of ships go around without any radar running in the day, even in heavy seas. White yacht in white ocean waves!

If a ship is going to come within 1 mile of my position I will call them around 2 miles out to confirm they have seen me. I start working out the positions and tracks at 3 miles but that only gives me about 3 minutes to get the radar on and all the course data worked out and written down. Some times it take another 3 minutes to wake up the ship.

Just do the maths, assuming that the course to miss the boat will put you beam on to the Ocean swell. Say they take a course change at 1 mile directly towards you and they could be doing 9 times your speed. You are just like a rabbit in car headlights, you have not got a chance. Also after the "incident" with the pilot in the Suez; if you are within a certain distance of a ship there is a massive suction force that pulls you in to the propeller. It was amazing what happens close to ships not even moving that fast.
 
English channel is an interesting channel. It is not open Ocean. There is no reason to contact ships in the lanes or approaching them. Having the lanes is to our safety. On our last crossing in fog we only contacted 2 vessels that were going to run us down from astern (ferries).

You should try high tailing it across Singapore Straits with the continuous tankers and inshore traffic zones. It is like running across the M25. We were watching about 20 boats simultaneously and dawdled 30 minutes at the side of the lanes to cross. We were not alone waiting either quite a few local boats.
 
All ships keep their radars running 24/24 at sea. No exceptions.

As for calling ships at 2 miles out, etc., are you serious? I have never heard of anyone doing that. Nobody ever calls a ship in the normal way - Why should they? How can they (without an AIS viewer which almost nobody has yet)? Nobody does all that plotting and worrying other than in bad viz.

As for being sucked into propellors, etc., it sounds as though you have never actually been to sea. At least, not as crew. It just isn't like that, thankfully, or none of us would ever go to sea. A training course that includes a crossing of a waterway used by shipping will put you straight.
 
From my pic above, it's fairly obvious I have some experience of passing ships a little closer than normal. It often gets too close to wield the camera!
I've never felt any effect from props, although the water does tend to disappear from under my keel for a few seconds.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of ships go around without any radar running in the day, even in heavy seas.

[/ QUOTE ]

utter bollix which will lead to unjustified anxiety amongst boating ppl - go wash your mouth out /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Since I have a radar detector on board and have travelled all the main oceans I have no doubts that a lot of ships do not run radar. They have 2 different systems normally and the close in one (equivalent to yacht radar frequencies) is off. They therefore have no chance of seeing a yacht. Their only worry is other ships at longer ranges. I called one in the Pacific who obviously did not see us and after I told him he did not have radar on he said it was policy in the day time. A lot, after the initial call, do turn on their radars.

You should try the Indian Ocean shipping lanes, even the ships start having verbal fights about incompetence between themselves. Not the usual nationality abuse, but real arguments about missing each other.

That is also where I heard the complaints about a ship not responding to AIS text message instructions.
 
FWIW, I have heard that they switch off the X-band (or the other way round, S-band) when not manoeuvering in tight or restricted waters. I was told this by a pilot (nooo NOT a BA pilot, a ship's pilot).
 
I think you are just scaremongering and I shall put you on my ignore user radar with immediate effect.
These photos are obviously doctored - as my old mum once said about Windscale, "If it was as bad as they are making out, they wouldn't allow it"
 
If you want to be really scared just read this report:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm

[ QUOTE ]
None of the reflectors would be more than marginally useful in offshore situations where only S-band were being used, except perhaps in calm sea conditions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you do something active and preventative then you are sitting "ducks" and not many of them.
 
in all my years at sea on commercial shipping, the only time the radar was turned off was during good vis mid ocean between about 1669 - 1971/2 whilst serving on clan line vessels worldwide, and this was entirely due to the captains of these vessels being dinasaurs lingering in the 'good old days before radar' world with their heads up their arses. in those days the radar was locked up and needed the radio officer to tune it up (with his bits and bobs on the monkey island).

during the last 30 - 20 years there has normally been one radar on all the time and the other one (if carried) on at night, and the last 20 years has seen radars on all he time, and a minimum of 2 in areas of high traffic density or in restricted visability etc .........

there is normally a 'box' in the deck log book on commercial vessels indicating when the radars are on/off, so reference can be made at a later date to check what was on and when

nowadays international maritime regulations specify the navigation watch must be undertaken visually, and by all other available means, (which includes radar), so in the event of an incident without the radar running, the master is on a looser from the word go.

however there are many substandard vessels operating globally without a working radar, or with a radar but without an operator knowing how to use it efficiently - or safely......... sadly there are too many of them in some areas of the world, but less so around the european area.

interestingly, if in the open ocean (and in the northly north sea away from land) a yachts sail is often noticed from a long way off simply because its an not a usual sight.

in conclusion - it is very rare nowadays to find commercial vessels operating with their radars off, and from a practical point of view it is sometimes difficult to get young deck officers to get their noses out of the radar and look out the windows /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
My experiences are all in recent years, but as you might guess the good ships are not the ones that need contacting. A good ship in open ocean never gets to the point of causing concern. I have watched many many ships doing the right thing.

So the viewpoint from a good ship bridge is a little biased. The best practises are not always carried out by other nationalities. In general small freighters are the worst. Oil tankers come next. Container ships are very good. Any unusual or slow ship are in my experience excellent.

Generally the ships in rough seas have a lot of care and a few have even given advice on weather and problems ahead.

Also the Magnetron of a radar has about 3000 hours of life before it should be replaced. That is not long in terms of a busy ship.
 
I always have my searchlight to hand from the cockpit. Flash or two in general direction of the bridge, then flash it around my mainsail. Mind you, this is 'in reserve', and I have only used the technique twice, and both times it was big fishing-vessel which was gallivanting all over the show, and I had no idea where he was going next. BTW, it works, and both times, FV switched extra lighting on to acknowledge. Not IRPCS, but effective.
 
Alas

Nobody has a spare crew member for that job.

Pity, but there we are - the crew numbers are based on the number of people needed to handle the lines when getting alongside (this is a slightly simplified view of a Safe Manning Certificate, but not much simplified!). Anyone on watch forward would (a) be on overtime (b) would probably be knackered and (c) would not be much use anyway as the ship's manoevrability is limited.

I should add that a tanker will adopt an extreme "bows up" attitude during stripping, alongside, and when ballasted for departure her bows will be a little lower down, but still relatively "bows up".

Container ships - looking over the deck stack - can be worse. I'll try to remember to take my camera along, for some comparions.
 
Re: Alas

That's slightly concerning. The MAIB conclusions in Beatrice and Brenda Prior (2005) included
[ QUOTE ]
Lookout:
• Brenda Prior failed to maintain an effective lookout, resulting in the mis-identification of Beatrice and the subsequent collision.
• PLA General Directions require vessels greater than 40 metres in length with the wheelhouse aft, to station a lookout at the bow, but not smaller vessels in the ballast condition trimmed deep by the stern and with limited visibility forward.
• Although DUKWs are painted yellow, the visibility of these vessels could be improved.
• Acting as Tour Guide reduces the DUKW lookout’s effectiveness.
• The skipper of Beatrice did not sound the ‘wake-up’ signal to alert Brenda Prior of his presence immediately before the collision.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Brenda Prior was only 30-odd metres.

I wonder if port authorities other than the PLA have similar General Directions? And whether the PLA's GDs are actually followed by any vessel right out to PA limits in the estuary?
 
IMO regulation AFAIK will require all cargo vessels over 3000grt to be fitted with a Voyage Data Recorder (VDR) (which is similar to the 'black box' fitted to commercial and military aircraft) by 2010. The VDR takes data feeds from numerous sources such as GPS, Charting, indoor and outdoor microphones plus of course Radar. I would think that this mean that radar being left on is default behaviour whilst underway. I also believe that most ships already have radar on at all times whilst underway. Whether anyone is looking at it is a different matter.......
 
lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

Manouevrability of any ship is far slower and awkward than any yacht.
5 minutes to get a prop turning astern - sounds like an AB's tale !! Yes it takes time because slapping 40,000 HP astern into one of those monster props would do serious damage and anyway would cavitate like hells let loose - crash stop buttons on bridges for years have had timed response on speed settings etc. dependent on ships characteristics. Days of Full Astern MR. Bosun are Beatles Yellow Submarine rubbish.

Next most vessels have at least one radar left on at all times and is usually the 3cm one - which has better pick up of smaller objects but more inclined to clutter and rain etc. 10cm is there as it has better performance in rain and reduced viz. In fact some vessels - like the LNG carriers I was on years ago - have change over switches to swap radar and scanners so that you have best combination dependent on land masses etc.

Watchman on bow - comparing the Thames and Eng. Chnl - surely you are not serious !! The vessel shown at start had 23 people on it ... but that is unusually high as the vessel is trading North Sea ... so increased manned ... normal complement would be 14 - 17. The increase is basically due to cargo work and short trips between ports. The only time a watch is posted fwd is in Fog, extremely restricted waters such as canals / pilotage onto SBM/ SPM's etc.

The bow at the stage of the photograph is at part discharge and about equal to its ballast config. There are some cases and I sailed on some - where we adopted "Flying trim" .... actually bow out of water, reason being not enough time for ballasting / de-ballasting to sea-going trim ... commercial pressures.

Forcing one of these ships to turn .... yes you can - but you play a serious case of chicken. You can see him at ALL times - he cannot see you at ALL times ..... and to be honest if you are in Eng Chnl and you are as close to him as that bow photo - you should think carefully as to why !!!! I certainly wouldn't get that close unless seriously restricted water !

Oh and lets get speed right ...... Oil Tankers / Bulkers etc. are generally about 15kts full away .... 12Kts in restricted waters ..... possibly 10 or less Solent / other approaches. Then we go up the ranges on open waters in stages through fast General cargo, Reefers and Container ships ... some of the fastest Merchant ships being Gas Carriers in fact. The days of the extreme speed Gas Turbine Containers ships ended with falklands Conflict - US Navy etc. stopped subsidising along with HM Navy .... so most Turbines were ripped out and replaced with HFO Motor units ... losing significant operating speed.

One comment about my post - it was to give a few shots of something that many do not get chance to see .... to actually see what the OOW is working with .... to give food for thought and I am glad that many have debated and looked at it ... I just hope that it can make us safer out there having a better idea of the "other guys" perspective. My wife - I just showed her the piccies and she was struck immediately by the deck shot and said - NOW she understood what I meant when I had commented on the boat when ships were around etc.

Please take note and lets all enjoy safely our boats .....
 
Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

[****YOU ARE IGNORING THIS YEWSER*****]

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

I was on a 150,000 t 17.5 kt bulker for a while, it took about 5 miles to alter 30 degrees and move along the intended direction ....... cool when steaming around japan where the local fishermen like to cross the bow to cut off their 'bad spirits'

I have no idea if we splatted any of them /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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