Visit to Bridge of 110,000 Ton Tanker ... pics and some details ..

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Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

So how do you feel about a change in the colregs (suitably worded and after careful study) to the effect that in the open sea, yachts and smaller vessels should give way to very large vessels?
 
Japan ....

We used to have a tug escort into Tokyo Bay on the Bulkies / Tankers and LNG ships ..... and at weekends when the party fishing boats were out - the tug used to shove 'em out of the way !!

I kick myself actually - cause I looked at the manouevring diagrams on the Wheelhouse bulkhead of the ship featured in this thread .... should have photo'd them as well .... can't remember the figures on them.


I forgot to answer a question about why I didn't identify the ship or Master etc. - for very good reason. Companys are very touchy about their ships being featured in any debate /pictures etc. and I do not want the ships crew or Master to get into any trouble for being frank and honest with me .... you have to remember that I am an ex-Merchant Navy guy who speaks their language and able in my job as Superintendent / Surveyor to get at info that normally wouldn't be available. OK - there isn't anything really damaging in the thread ... but they may take a different view. I respect the Master and Officers for the privilege.
 
Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

I think its eminantly sensible, dont you ........ especially as more and more single handed jobbies are littering the oceans

in my deep sea days (before sat nav etc ....) I used to alter towards any yot I saw to get a cpa of 2 miles or so, that enabled me to see it through the bins and see if any waif waves a hanky in desperation at me .... didnt happen but I was there /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Is this relevant??

Heard on Ch 16 yesterday afternoon mid-Channel, sea slight, good visibility:
(foreign accent) "'allo captain FastCat, I alter course to pass starboard, yes?"
(very English) " Too bloody late - you should have changed course ten minutes ago."
I didn't hear any sound of collison thankfully.
 
Re: Is this relevant??

That raises an interesting digression. We have already asked whether there is a case for making very small vessels (e.g. up to 20m) give way to very large vessels (e.g. ???). The next question is whether very fast vessels (e.g. >25kts) should give way to very slow vessels of all sizes (e.g. <8kt)?
 
Re: Is this relevant??

'ere mate, wotcha mean "funny sign 8 knots"?? I was doin' funny sign backwards 9 knots!

I had a conversation with Becky over dinner about standards of education in general and rote learning in particular so was very aware that 9 x 8 = 72: I could get to Cherbourg in eight hours or nine from Chi. Other factors were not available but Duncan had more scope and chose 3 x 24 for his little whizzbang going over from Poole.

You don't have to have a degree in Mathematics to go boating, but it helps!
 
Re: Is this relevant??

It's a good deal less complicated than the rules relating to sailing vessels. This rule is already in place, anyway, in channels, etc. It seems daft to have a system that forces 100,000 ton vessels to zig-zag between a myriad of tiny leisure vessels. Doesn't make sense.
 
Re: Is this relevant??

I think that's fair, and I'd hope what most people do.

There aren't really a lot of raggies who think that a large ship will, or should, alter course for them except out in open and uncrowded waters. Unfortunately it always seems that a large proportion of the offenders sail in the Solent (or to be more accurate, motor-sail in the Solent).
 
Re: Is this relevant??

Plenty of recreational boats are much larger than working boats; how are you going to determine in all visibilities which is which?

As for differentiating on size, large vessels that qualify for priority could fly an appropriate signal and show apporpriate lights. Though of course, with size, it will usually be pretty obvious!
 
Re: Is this relevant??

Within the habour limits for our home harbour which extend out to include the pilot stations (those limits would probably be close to the area of the Solent) the following applies:

The master of every vessel under 500 gross tonnage shall not navigate so as to impede the navigation of any vessel of 500 gross tonnage or more, or any hovercraft.

I would have thought that fairly commonplace but perhaps not in the UK?

How one does a quick measure to see if the other vessel is 500 grt or more I don't know - I always play it safe /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
Re: Is this relevant??

Please do some simple navigation.

The situation is a large ship astern of you has just done a course change. He was going to miss you by 1/2 mile to your port. He has done a 20 degree change to starboard. He now has you lined up perfectly.

You are on a beam reach starboard tack in 20 knots.

He is going 20 knots and you are doing 5.

Assuming you look up every 2 minutes. You have about 3 minutes to give way to the vessel.

What would you do?


There is a good reason that the colreg are like they are. This is a simple example. Try some of the multi ship examples.

At any planned distance of missing a ship you have to assume that the ship could do a course change in the next few minutes as well. So, if it was all up to you, whatever your plan has to predict the future action of the captain as well. That is why the closest approach has to be large so there is time to react to further changes.

One of the most important parts of the colregs is the actions of the stand on vessel. By defining these the other vessel has a chance to predict your course for the duration of the situation.

There is no way that yachts should give way always to ships unless some bright spark comes up with a way to make sure ships transmit their future course and they always adhere to it. Not to practical at present.

What is actually needed is speed difference and closest approach guidelines. There are some high speed types of vessels covered. After meeting the military hovercraft off California I know why they are needed. I did not even get time to get the camera before it was over the horizon! It came to see us on the way back as well.

However, a ship passing into an area of high yacht density is also a problem. How about the freighter that met the large yacht race leaving Palma. There was no way he could give way to them within the colregs. If he had turned to starboard there would have been carnage. Colregs go only so far. Once the number of vessels in an area (be they ships or yachts) are grouped at the minimum safe distance colregs fail completely. They only work for sparse situations and controlled traffic flow situations.

But the key is they don't work at all if you are invisible.
 
Re: Is this relevant??

Well, if he's got me lined up perfectly I'd carry on the same course and expect him to do the same. He'd therefore pass me 1/4 of a mile astern.

If he we were on a collision course (i.e. pointing ahead of me) then I'd turn hard to port, slow down and go round his stern. Turning by a large number of degrees would ensure that if he had seen me then he would know exactly what I was doing.
 
Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

Firstly thanks for this thread - always good to get a view from the other chaps perspective.

I noticed in your inventory of the bridge equipment you never mentioned a sounder - perhaps a simple oversight or do they really not have one.

A further question if I may. I see a lot of ships anchored off the river Tees, some of them pretty big tankers.

The anchor chain always appears to hang vertically or very near vertically.

When I anchor my chain runs away at a much smaller angle. Is it just an illusion to do with relative size or do ships manage an a smaller scope?
 
Re: lets clear away some of this cr*p that gets churned up again and ...

[ QUOTE ]
A further question if I may. I see a lot of ships anchored off the river Tees, some of them pretty big tankers.

The anchor chain always appears to hang vertically or very near vertically.

When I anchor my chain runs away at a much smaller angle. Is it just an illusion to do with relative size or do ships manage an a smaller scope?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the reason the chain hangs near vertically that it is much heavier than the yacht equivalent so weight will drag it more vertical. So anchor will lie on the seabed with an amount of chain horizontally held down by its own weight and then a more vertical rise to the ship. As opposed to a lighter weight chain on a small vessel that will be on a shallower angle?
 
Re: colregs - ugh

I presume you are talking about the extra lighting requirements for vessels > 50m? I'm not sure that goes far enough and doesn't apply in daylight anyway. You cannot always see the forward steaming light. I was thinking more along the lines of a colour-coded signal such as used for fishing/pilots, etc. which a larger vessel would only turn on when a) the were qualified to and b) on a passage when they wish to claim priority. Something like red over green over red, for example. The hardware is already available and it the meaning of the signal would be tucked into training manuals.

Let's face it, though. even if everyone agreed that something like this was a good idea, it would not appear in maritime law until most of us had passed over a long time before! The discussion is really only for amusement.
 
No not an inventory ...

I kept to the relevant items as per recent / past threads on YBW ...

He has 2 sounders .... botyhe paper recording with interchangeable tranducers .... 1 mounted in bow ... other aft.

He has auto draft indicators also giving Fwd, Aft, Mid port, Mid Stbd and also a trim indictaor +List.

2 VHF fixed DSC sets and full 2182 SSB, Satcom C as well as SatData links.

2 Navtex data printers

2 Met Fax stations linked to different Meteo transmission stations.

Full Bridge control of Main Engines.

There are a myriad of other items .... including Sperry Gyro-Compass with repeaters at Helm station, mid wheelhouse front, and one on each bridge wing .... all apart from helm station with Azimuth rings for Compass error, bearing and collision avoidance use.

Data Recorder not fitted - that is due for fitting later this year ....

the question about anchor chain and "up & down" .... Yes that is normal as a vessel "brings up to the weight" of that chain. Until significant current or windage affects the vessel this is common. You have to remember that a ships anchor chain is what holds it in place ..... the weight of it is considerable. For eachg link you need a lifting gear of some description - man cannot do it ! The anchor is only a "fixing item" for end of chain. Short term anchoring ... eg of Rotterdam for example may use 4 or 5 shackles in water .... each shackle = 15 fathoms (90 feet). For longer anchoring maybe 6 - 7 in water ... with another 4+ in locker ......some ships in fact carry more than 11 (which used to be standard inventory on each anchor). The anchor on a ship as shown above would be in region of 20 tons or more alone...... possibly more.
 
Re: colregs - ugh ....... hang on a mo ....

Red - White - Red .....

and equivalent day signal is ALREADY in the regs .... why add to it ....

also a draft constrained vessel hangs a CYLINDER shape ... which I have hoisted many times on large vessels transiting such areas as Dover Straits etc.

There is no need to add anymore to ColRegs .... they already cater for it.

That and common sense on smaller vessels part .... do you really wish to be a scratch in the paint of the bow of a 200,000 ton tanker ?
 
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