Visit to Bridge of 110,000 Ton Tanker ... pics and some details ..

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I post this on Scuttlebutt for good reason - it hits square on a topic that arises often about ECS (charting GPS) and ships view of yachts etc.

First I must thank the captain - who must remain anonymous and the ship not be identified - commercial reasons.

While looking after a vessel - I took opportunity to visit another and chat to the Officers and Master about the changing world of Bridge and ECS etc.

Here is the working world - the radar / ECS and control panel for this vessel - 7 yrs old and modern 110,000 MT , 240m long tanker plying North Sea >

17-09-06KS_bridge.jpg


Here is the ECS system at port side of command panel >

17-09-06KS_ecs.jpg


So first let's describe the systems ..... 2 TV display radars with full ARPA capability on both with AIS .... port side S-Band, stbd X-band. 2 GPS receivers in data display mode only ... Furuno GP90's .... OSL ECPINS Chart display onto 24" TV display matching radar ... with AIS integration (Radar overlay not available at this time - in progress of fitting).
At Chart table a further GPS - a JRC model JRL 7700 and a further Furuno GPS90 in the captains cabin ..... making 4 GPS displays in all - BUT all were non plotter types.

So we have twin radar set-up and AIS .... The ECS system uses ARCS Raster charts with possibility to install Vector / S-57 at owners option.

So what do they think of it .... Nav Officers were generally pleased but agreed with Masters comment that the charting had some quirks that he did not like. Main being that when charts changed as vessel moved - the display altered the zoom in of the next chart even if a different scale - making the transition awkward and text / colouring / contours change etc. THEY much preferred the Vector style where text / colouring / contours did not change and details could be switched on / off ... On this raster system only limited details could be on / off. When zooming out - time was taken by machine to overlay chart outlines for available charts in that area ....... causing a slight second delay in re-draw.
Master and Officers were very happy though with technology moving forward and making it easier to navigate given the busier shipping lanes etc.
Paper charts were carried on this vessel as primary system and were evident on chart table when I was there - with plots etc.
What was interesting was the correction system they used ..... via Satcom E-Mail they received data files that were auto-loaded into a PC Program called DigiTrace 5 ..... this produced exact chart block sections to paste onto the chart to correct ... so a colour printer and a tube of paper glue !! and away you go. The system had ability to save corrections for later retrieval for charts rarely used - cutting back nav Officers overall correction duties. The ECS system was updated automatically by disc or card from similar E-mail download.

Now onto Yachts and interaction with such vessels .... All said they had distinct difficulty with yachts and were anxious not to have incidents .... but all remarked on the too close passing / lack of action of yachts at reasonable distance .... Now when I show these next two pictures you will start to realise what they are talking about .....

First the view from the bridge window fwd :>

17-09-06KS_1.jpg


Next is view from shore (elevation about 5m above water) approx. 200m ahead of vessel:>

17-09-06KS_a.jpg


Does anyone notice anything ? From the bridge view you cannot see the building that I took picture ashore from .... and the shore picture - you cannot see the bridge or even the accom. block on the ship.

So what chance has the OOW if you on your yacht are in his vicinity ?

I hope that not too many people have me on "Ignore List" .... this whole post now is not to argue, blame yachts or ships crew .... I thought I would take the opportunity to illustrate to many that are not involved with ships to get a view of "the other side" .... the likes of Mirelle etc. already see this stuff as I do - and sometimes we get a bit lost in trying to explain or illustrate ... well I've tried to help here ....

Oh and a last note ..... I asked about radar returns of yachts .... very vague answers ... the culmination being that often they see the sails and then identify the small pip amongst the all similar sea state blips ... as they said it is extremely hard to pick out a yacht on radar on an average windy choppy day ... it just gets lost in the clutter on screen - even with modern sophisticated filtered screens as on this vessel.
 
Very interesting. Many thanks for sharing it with us. Don't see why it is so hush hush, though.
 
Silly question, but if the area in 800m in front is a blindspot, why not fit a foward facing camera linked to a screen on the bridge, or is the theory that any smaller vessel in that zone is stuffed due to lack of manouvreability, hence no point in getting close up footage of their demise ?

I would have thought that even if the tanker couldn't change course or slow down, 5 short blasts could at least give the intruder a chance to escape.

dv.
 
Useful perspective. But a question - not an observation. I recall the MAIB report into the collision of a sand boat on the Thames returning in ballast; because the hull was bow-up when the holds were empty and this restricted visibility from the wheelhouse, there was an expectation that a crew member would be stationed for'd to maintain an effective lookout as required by col regs.

I assume this requirement would only apply in waters known to be frequented by small boat traffic? I.e. inshore waters say up to five miles from coast?
 
I believe the secrecy is due to maritime security laws now in existance. My son is a cadet on a reefer running between Brazil and the Gulf. They are not allowed to photograph the ship or ports. Sad realy!
 
In practice, I suspect the lousy visibility forward doesn't matter a lot. When that thing's doing 20 knots, if it' s disappeared from view, there's nothing they can do to avoid hitting it anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

IIRC, according to an article on one of the big container ships regularly seen in the Solent, from the "Oh f*ck, full astern!" moment to getting the prop to start going the other way took 5 minutes, & if it wan't doing 17 knots, they couldn't steer it
 
I think that at the end of the day we all have a duty of care to ourselves and our crew. I know many people believe that these large ships should give way etc etc, but the reality of it is that they don't seem able to do so and it is far easier for a 30-50' yacht to move than a 250m ship. These sort of posts and the presumed tragic accident of the Ouzo should only serve as a lesson to us... LOOK OUT! Should there be an accident, I don't think you could hold any one person completely at fault either.
 
[ QUOTE ]
....many people believe that these large ships should give way etc etc, but the reality of it is that they don't seem able to do so and it is far easier for a 30-50' yacht to move than a 250m ship.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree. Shouldn't the colregs be changed to give them the right of way, even in open waters?
 
Absolutely not.

If all ships only went in straight lines, yes I would agree.

However, they turn and you do not know when or why they are doing it. It could be to miss a ship you have not even seen yet over the horizon. They have arranged it over DSC without you knowing. It is amazing that they invented AIS which tells you only what they did do some seconds ago, not anything about their intentions over the next half an hour. The most stupid piece of technology ever.

But you happen to be there, right in their path.
At 5 knots against a huge ship that has just done a 20 degree course change you have not got a hope of getting out of its way. You also do not know if it will do another course change in the next minute. Or if the autopilot will correct for cross track. I knew an crew member of an oil tanker that moved to container ships because he could not cope with not knowing were he would be next. They would outbid each other for the oil and they would have to change course to another port.

The key is to warn any vessel that is approaching you, of your position. It used to be so easy doing this on CH16, while in open ocean. Now it takes electronics and time. It was polite to call up ships and you used to get reasonable responses. Now they hide behind their technology. I know of an oil tanker that did a loop so that they could drop a paint can full of ice and beer to a South African yacht.

Using your reasoning, I think we could make it the pedestrians responsibility to climb over the hawthorn hedge if a car comes along at 60mph down a country lane. Why should they have to look and take care, they are a big car.
 
However. Lots of official advice is not to contact vessels and agree movements by vhf, as this causes misunderstandings and accidents. Stick to colregs
 
I think you'll find that ships, having identified the other vessel on radar/AIS, they actually call on Ch16 and then change to another frequency. DSC is not used, so by monitoring Ch16 you will always hear these discussions in the open sea. In ports, it is on the port channel, of course.

As for giving large vessels priority over yachts and smaller vessels, a good deal of thought would have to be put into the exact wording but in principle, maybe it would be a good idea.
 
As for being able to change course they are quite capable when at cruising speed. We have seen it.

Also early action in open ocean costs nothing. They just need to know you are there. i.e you need a real radar reflector and they need to actually have the correct radar switched on.
 
I did not say to agree movements I just meant to say hello. So they know you exist and are watching.

DSC and even the text messaging facility is used.
 
technology like AIS removes some errors, but the chances are in some areas you don't know that the person you are talking to is the person on the boat or ship you intended to call?
 
[ QUOTE ]
technology like AIS removes some errors, but the chances are in some areas you don't know that the person you are talking to is the person on the boat or ship you intended to call?

[/ QUOTE ]

You do if you keep to a set procedure of asking their position and course and use the radar to confirm the position of the echo.

Without a radar you use a vessel description. Container, oil tanker, vessel with 5 cranes, vessel that has a light directed at its bridge from the port bow. etc etc. Course if they are heading straight at you.

It is very easy and I have never had any difficulty with multiple ships. In the days when CH16 worked the initial call should have the position repeated slowly at the end of the call and only whole minutes. If there is more than one boat within the mile you should be able to see them and verbally distinguish them.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I did not say to agree movements I just meant to say hello. So they know you exist and are watching.

[/ QUOTE ]In good viz? I've never heard it happen. Have you?
 
[ QUOTE ]
You do if you keep to a set procedure of asking their position and course and use the radar to confirm the position of the echo.

[/ QUOTE ]No. There is no way of knowing (without a VHF DF system such as the lifeboats carry) where the VHF communication is coming from. Worryingly, especially at night, you hear sick calls obviously from professional ships. Usually foul language and weird noises but it is by no means impossible for one of these sick people to pretend to be another vessel. I've never heard it happen or heard of it happening, though.
 
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