Video of a collision between a float plane and powerboat in Vancouver Harbour.

[Stemar]

And Colregs get tricky when the relative speeds of two craft are very different.

Which is why, if I'm in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to me, Rule 17 applies - save my arse and NCD!

I have an opinion which, as I'm posting it on the internet, and it's based on very little evidence, must be correct, but I'll wait for the outcome of the investigation before blaming anyone.

 

[LittleSister]

Which is why, if I'm in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to me, Rule 17 applies - save my arse and NCD!

That's actually contrary to Rule 17.

That rule says you must stand on. That includes during the period when you are, as you say, "in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to [you]".

Only after you have concluded that the give way vessel has failed to do so may you alter course.


Rule 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a)

1. Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.
2. The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with sub-paragraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.
(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way

 

[Stemar]

I'll give 'em a chance to give way but, f'rinstance, if I see a seaplane taking off across my path, I'm going to reckon the likelihood of his giving way once he's planing on the floats is pretty remote, so I'll take whatever steps seem necessary, because that's the point at which I reckon he's failed to give way.

In fact, if I see a seaplane taking off, I'm going to make sure I'm not in his way well before there's a risk of collision, because I can manoeuvre more easily than he can.

 

[lustyd]

That's actually contrary to Rule 17

It isn’t. The rules only apply to collision situations, you’re quite free to do what you like until you’re in one including taking early action.

 

[capnsensible]

I'll give 'em a chance to give way but, f'rinstance, if I see a seaplane taking off across my path, I'm going to reckon the likelihood of his giving way once he's planing on the floats is pretty remote, so I'll take whatever steps seem necessary, because that's the point at which I reckon he's failed to give way.

In fact, if I see a seaplane taking off, I'm going to make sure I'm not in his way well before there's a risk of collision, because I can manoeuvre more easily than he can.

Don't bring common sense and good seamanship into this thread!

 

[LittleSister]

It isn’t. The rules only apply to collision situations, you’re quite free to do what you like until you’re in one including taking early action.

It is.

This (and others) specifically apply in situations where vessels 'are in sight of one another'. Also, Stemar is talking of a give way vessel, therefore a crossing, head-on, or overtaking etc. situation exists.

I agree that your free to do what you like to avoid a crossing etc. situation arising, but once it does, you're bound by Rule 17.

 

[ylop]

That rule says you must stand on. That includes during the period when you are, as you say, "in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to [you]".

Only after you have concluded that the give way vessel has failed to do so may you alter course.

If we want to be pedantic then I think Stemar is probably ok within the letter of the law. He’s certainly sensible and probably in the spirit of the rules even if he is not.

1. You see another vessel, you are the stand on vessel, she should give way to you. Rule 17a(2) essentially says you may take your own steps to avoid a collision as soon as it becomes obvious to you that the give way vessel is not taking appropriate action.

What Stemar said was:

if I'm in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to me, Rule 17 applies - save my arse and NCD!

(Your bold). So you are right that 17(a)2 doesn’t say as soon as you doubt she is going to give way, but by having left you with that doubt it sounds like the give way vessel has not taken appropriate action under rule 16 by taking early and substantive action. Too many people play a game of chicken and leave it to the last minute to take avoiding action, and seem to interpret the rule (17) as saying “hold your nerve until only you can avoid the collision”. If that is the intent we don’t need 17a2 at all because 17b covers that.

 

[lustyd]

This (and others) specifically apply in situations where vessels 'are in sight of one another'

Vessels in sight of one another change course all the time. You’re misinterpreting the regs. You can change course at any time unless you’re in a collision situation. Trust me, the Solent couldn’t work otherwise!

 

[Supertramp]

Which is why, if I'm in any doubt about whether a give way vessel is going to actually give way to me, Rule 17 applies - save my arse and NCD!

I have an opinion which, as I'm posting it on the internet, and it's based on very little evidence, must be correct, but I'll wait for the outcome of the investigation before blaming anyone.

The difficulty with very fast vessels is which way to run - in the open sea I hold my course as per Colregs and so far (!) ferries travelling at 20 to 30 knts adjust to give me a respectable CPA ( seen on AIS). But a seaplane is another step faster. In reality by the time I saw it I would just have time to disengage the autopilot.

Craighouse, Jura. Put my pulse rate up a bit even though i was anchored. Never met one of these before in the UK.