Concerto
Well-known member
A small powerboat got in the way of a float plane taking off in Vancouver harbour, a number of people taken to hospital.
Video of a collision between a float plane and powerboat in Vancouver Harbour.
- Thread starter Concerto
- Start date
Iliade
Well-known member
westernman
Well-known member
The boat was the stand on vessel.
Stingo
Well-known member
Correct:
When it comes to navigating the water, seaplanes and boats operate under different sets of rules. The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (Colregs) provide guidelines for all vessels, including seaplanes and boats. Here's a breakdown of the key differences:
Seaplane:
A seaplane is considered a vessel when on the surface of the water.
It is subject to Colregs when on the … Colregs seaplane vs boat
harvey38
Well-known member
Looks like the aircraft saw the boat and prematurely tried to get airborne, why the pilot didn't abort I don't know as I would have thought the drag on the floats would be significant and slow it enough for rudder input to avoid the collision.
I've not flown a float plane so unsure of any nuances they have.
I've not flown a float plane so unsure of any nuances they have.
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westernman
Well-known member
Stingo
Well-known member
Power gives way to sail 
Stingo
Well-known member
I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder if the zoom level in that photo has distorted reality i.e. they're actually miles apart???
Edit: in a previous life, I taught windsurfing. Just by her stance, I can assure you that she's only just passed absolute beginner level, so is very unlikely to be aware of ColReg complications
Edit: in a previous life, I taught windsurfing. Just by her stance, I can assure you that she's only just passed absolute beginner level, so is very unlikely to be aware of ColReg complications
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westernman
Well-known member
I took the photo. They are not that far apart.
What impressed me was how fast the sea-plane, which has just landed, actually stopped. So the windsurfer was actually in no danger at all.
But it was impressive.
ylop
Well-known member
Interesting choice of words. It does look like maybe the powerboat skipper panicked and stopped like a rabbit in the headlights rather than just proceed… but I once gave a vessel on the Forth a bit of a fright when I was standing on the fuel line and the boat stopped at the wrong moment!
bedouin
Well-known member
I have seen a better video of this from another angle - the power boat is travelling comparatively slowly and does not make any change of course or speed - you have to assume he didn't even see the plane as he could easily have avoided the collision
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/seaplane-crash-vancouver-coal-harbour-1.7229406
benjenbav
Well-known member
I know Coal Harbour reasonably well - frequently stay in an hotel overlooking the area where this incident occurred.
The float planes take off and land there many times every day and there’s a yacht club and a floating fuel dock nearby where this footage was taken and to and from which there’s usually a steady stream of boats, but nothing like the Hamble Scramble on a Sunday afternoon.
I’ve flown on these planes and - as someone said - it had never occurred to me that there would be any likelihood of such an incident occurring. As with Canada in general, the spaces are huge.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/seaplane-crash-vancouver-coal-harbour-1.7229406
The float planes take off and land there many times every day and there’s a yacht club and a floating fuel dock nearby where this footage was taken and to and from which there’s usually a steady stream of boats, but nothing like the Hamble Scramble on a Sunday afternoon.
I’ve flown on these planes and - as someone said - it had never occurred to me that there would be any likelihood of such an incident occurring. As with Canada in general, the spaces are huge.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/seaplane-crash-vancouver-coal-harbour-1.7229406
westernman
Well-known member
The power boat according to colregs is the stand on vessel.
It is not supposed to change course or speed unless it is obvious that the other vessel is not taking enough action to avoid a collision.
ylop
Well-known member
I think Bedouin was responding to me. It was my impression from the first video that just as it starts he slowed down significantly. It’s less obvious in the other video so either it’s just camera angles or the other video starts a fraction later. I did just see someone saying elsewhere this is a designated seaplane priority area and he was required to keep clear.
Concerto
Well-known member
The link in post #4 is definitely worth reading, BUT the collision regulations relating to sea planes definitely needs changing. Whilst an aircraft is taking off or landing, all other vessels must keep clear. Why is this not the current case?
ylop
Well-known member
That would imply that a sea plane could just decide to land in the solent on a Saturday afternoon and expect the punters to scatter out their way. The rules create a hierarchy of priorities - a right of way over ALL other vessels certainly seems wrong.
Now if you told me that during take off or landing a seaplane was restricted in its ability to manoeuvre I certainly wouldn’t argue with you.
But there’s nothing to stop harbour authorities designating special rules for particular craft in particular areas. From my brief reading that probably is the case here, and there is essentially an air traffic control overseeing the area too.
LittleSister
Well-known member
The seaplane was warned about the approaching boat as he was being given clearance to take off by Air Traffic Control, but did not acknowledge that particular item in his response, and the controller did not pick up on that lack of acknowledgement of it.
It is highly likely the plane never saw the boat. The pilot's forward and downward vision, particularly to the right (because the pilot is seated left) is severely limited in that type of aeroplane by the bulk of the radial engine, especially as it accelerates to take off, when the plane pitches upwards on its floats, during which time the pilot can see only upwards ahead. The plane comes nearer level only once the aeroplane's floats come onto the plane, only just before take off.
This is all clearly explained and illustrated (as ever) by aviator Juan Browne in the video linked below, though he is unfamiliar with the ColRegs (which as others have said makes the plane the give way vessel, and the boat the stand on) so is unable to come to a conclusion on that aspect of it.
On water, given the ColRegs and the pilot's poor forward visibility s/he needs to be very sure the take off path is and will remain clear, and it would seem the pilot ought to take extra measures (fly from the right seat? enlist the person in the right seat to look out?) to survey for any approaching traffic from the right.
It is highly likely the plane never saw the boat. The pilot's forward and downward vision, particularly to the right (because the pilot is seated left) is severely limited in that type of aeroplane by the bulk of the radial engine, especially as it accelerates to take off, when the plane pitches upwards on its floats, during which time the pilot can see only upwards ahead. The plane comes nearer level only once the aeroplane's floats come onto the plane, only just before take off.
This is all clearly explained and illustrated (as ever) by aviator Juan Browne in the video linked below, though he is unfamiliar with the ColRegs (which as others have said makes the plane the give way vessel, and the boat the stand on) so is unable to come to a conclusion on that aspect of it.
On water, given the ColRegs and the pilot's poor forward visibility s/he needs to be very sure the take off path is and will remain clear, and it would seem the pilot ought to take extra measures (fly from the right seat? enlist the person in the right seat to look out?) to survey for any approaching traffic from the right.
dolabriform
Well-known member
The Harbour Master said on one of the news channels that the area was reserved for aircraft.
The Port of Vancouver Information states: "The aircraft operations zones marked on the chart are areas of high activity and
operators of recreational vessels or pleasure craft are required to keep clear. "
If this is the case, then the local bylaws would take precedence over rule 18 and that boat should have kept clear.
The Port of Vancouver Information states: "The aircraft operations zones marked on the chart are areas of high activity and
operators of recreational vessels or pleasure craft are required to keep clear. "
If this is the case, then the local bylaws would take precedence over rule 18 and that boat should have kept clear.
Stemar
Well-known member
That certainly seems plausible but, even if not, and the mobo was stand on, when it comes to a seaplane taking off, I reckon that it's a case of the stand on vessel needing to take action to avoid a collision. ISTM that simple good seamanship means you see the plane coming and realise it can't avoid you, but you can very easily avoid it, so you stop well back or make a clear turn
benjenbav
Well-known member
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