Vendee Globe and Alex Thomson / Hugo Boss

[Frogmogman]

....and another one,(Merci, Seb Destremeau). With the retirement of Fabrice Amedeo on Newrest/Art et Fenetres he's now up to 25th place.

Jeremie is tearing through the back of the fleet now, having overtaken Clement Giraud and Miranda Merron, now in 23rd place, he should be up into 21st by tomorrow.

There was a nice exchange of messages between Beyou and Giraud yesterday. Jeremy told Clement "look in the rear view mirror, the bull is on it's way" Clement responded with a video clip, in which he was waving a red oilskin, while pretending to be a toreador "Jeremié told me that they have released the bull, and forgotten to shut the gate"

Beyou also pointed out that Giraud's boat was the one in which he had attempted his first vendée globe.

 

[Ravi]

......... three are non foilers, but they are lying 4, 5 and 6. On current data, could a non foiler
still win or even have a future in the next Vendee ?

The IMOCA designer on the Vendée daily show was just asked this same question. His reply was that " To win the Vendée, you don't need to have the fastest boat- just one that is fast enough.

He went on to talk about how the optimal boat for one part of the race is not the optimal boat for a different Ocean and the mix of weather and sea conditions in any edition that are encountered make that even more variable.

I took his answer to mean that a non foiling boat could win given the right conditions, skipper and luck.

Interestingly, he was also asked if IMOCA should stop allowing folers and his response was that the"genie is out of the bottle".


(*. When the rescue hours are credited, non foilers will be even closer to the lead! *)

 

[Frogmogman]

The IMOCA designer on the Vendée daily show was just asked this same question. His reply was that " To win the Vendée, you don't need to have the fastest boat- just one that is fast enough.

I thought Merf Owen (Of Owen Clarke Design) was very interesting on the show today.

He talked about his old Kingfisher design, which is doing very respectably in the hands of Didac Costa. Lack of funds had prevented Costa from having new dagger boards built to replace the old ones, which were knackered, so they had removed them and the associated structure from the boat, saving about quarter of a tonne in the process. Costa accepts that this limits his windward performance, but in view of his budgetary constraints, it seems like quite a pragmatic approach.

 

[E39mad]

So Charlie Dalin has hit something with his port foil - not much detail yet but slowed down. Feel sorry for him.

Yannick Bestaven likely to overtake in the next 12 hours as only 42 miles behind but is 6 knots faster

 

[Ravi]

So Charlie Dalin has hit something with his port foil - not much detail yet but slowed down. Feel sorry for him.

Pure rotten luck.

The report says no water ingress, so it sounds similar to the damage to Thomas Ruyen's boat which came from the same designer. Hopefully, Dalin can carry out a similar repair and continue to be reasonably competitive. There is certainly plenty of calm water to the North to sail into and make a repair.

It will be a real shame if he has to abandon as he has sailed a great race from the front.

Slocum put double breast hooks in his boat for the Southern oceans. Are these foils designed to withstand the impact of the mass of a a typically encountered floating object, (like a tree trunk) or is there a presumption that this is such a low probability event that it can be ignored?

I can't help but wonder if it may not be taunting Neptune to have relatively brittle appendages sweeping the water alongside a boat which sails at double the speed of the Spray. (And, of course, a bow has a bow wave preceding it which will reduce the impact of any floating object.)

With Ruyen handicapped on a starboard tack and the chasing boats struggling to make 10 knots in light winds, (which should continue for a day or two), Bestaven has been handed the initiative. He is currently doing 20 knots and outpacing Ruyen by a couple of knots. Especially since Ruyen will probably face the last 5000M from Brazil mostly on starboard.
But there is a long way - and many UFOs :-( - to navigate yet.

 

[E39mad]

Bestaven appears to have slowed down also. Lost 50 miles to Ruyant overnight who now leads. Wondering if he has an issue too.

Not sure it's looking good for Apivia who is currently on port tack pointing towards Tasmania. Hopefully this is just tempory to effect what repairs he can to the port foil.

400 miles behind only 12 miles separate 5 boats!!

 

[Tomahawk]

And people think athletics is close and competitive.
In a 100m sprint, they would all finish first unless the cameras were super super high speed jobs.

 

[Frogmogman]

I also noticed that Sam Davies got underway again yesterday. Although she is no longer competing, she will be shadowing the race and raising money for her charity, initiatives coeur. Crushing disappointment for her to have to abandon this Vendée Globe, in which she had a decent chance of a podium position, but her humanitarian project is very important and worthwhile too.

For every click (a like or share on facebook or signing up on instagram), her sponsors donate €1 to initiatives coeur, providing heart surgery in France for kids from poor countries who would otherwise not get treated, or you can of course just make a donation.

Can I urge all of you to get on there and click !!

Initiatives-Cœur defies the oceans to save children

 

[E39mad]

Bestaven has been slow due to going up the rig and repairing his J2 which has been slowing him down for about 5 days.

I begin to wonder how fast and far ahead he would have been with it!!!

Further back the 5 boats are now within a mile of each other - incredible and must be like constant match racing!!

 

[Skellum]

Further back the 5 boats are now within a mile of each other - incredible and must be like constant match racing!!
[/QUOTE]

“If Carlsberg did flotilla holidays....”

 

[Roberto]

Amazing video, halfway across a VG

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Pure rotten luck.

The report says no water ingress, so it sounds similar to the damage to Thomas Ruyen's boat which came from the same designer. Hopefully, Dalin can carry out a similar repair and continue to be reasonably competitive. There is certainly plenty of calm water to the North to sail into and make a repair.

It will be a real shame if he has to abandon as he has sailed a great race from the front.

Slocum put double breast hooks in his boat for the Southern oceans. Are these foils designed to withstand the impact of the mass of a a typically encountered floating object, (like a tree trunk) or is there a presumption that this is such a low probability event that it can be ignored?

I can't help but wonder if it may not be taunting Neptune to have relatively brittle appendages sweeping the water alongside a boat which sails at double the speed of the Spray. (And, of course, a bow has a bow wave preceding it which will reduce the impact of any floating object.)

With Ruyen handicapped on a starboard tack and the chasing boats struggling to make 10 knots in light winds, (which should continue for a day or two), Bestaven has been handed the initiative. He is currently doing 20 knots and outpacing Ruyen by a couple of knots. Especially since Ruyen will probably face the last 5000M from Brazil mostly on starboard.
But there is a long way - and many UFOs :-( - to navigate yet.

Now going in the right direction and doing 16 kts.

 

[Tomahawk]

Roberto beat me to it.
You couldn’t put a fag paper between them.

 

[zoidberg]

Probably from the same video-dispatch as Roberto's...

Yannick Bestaven doing repairs.

 

[Ravi]

Dalin's team are reporting that they don't think that the structural damage is a result of a UFO. I seem to recollect that Ruyen's damage to his foil was also deemed to be non-UFO unrelated. The impression given from team HB is that Alex's initial structural damage was also not due to a UFO. Kevin Escoffier has also not talked about a UFO but seemed to imply it was the sea state that caused the damage.

Obviously, it is early days and there will be sensible scientific analysis done to determine cause. In the immediate context of the race, however, it makes one contemplate the proximity of 'cutting edge' and 'bleeding edge' technology. The fastest, newest boats seem to be the one's with structural vulnerabilities. It may just be bad luck. It may be inadequate sea trialling opportunities during Covid. It may be over ambitious design. Who knows?

And if the cause of these incidents is not UFO/luck related, it is not necessarily good news for the skippers. If Dalin's and Ruyen's problems with their port foils are purely design problems , can they be confident that they will not encounter the same issues with their starboard foils during the passage? It cannot be easy to race a boat when you have doubts about its resilience.

 

[flaming]

Dalin's team are reporting that they don't think that the structural damage is a result of a UFO. I seem to recollect that Ruyen's damage to his foil was also deemed to be non-UFO unrelated. The impression given from team HB is that Alex's initial structural damage was also not due to a UFO. Kevin Escoffier has also not talked about a UFO but seemed to imply it was the sea state that caused the damage.

Obviously, it is early days and there will be sensible scientific analysis done to determine cause. In the immediate context of the race, however, it makes one contemplate the proximity of 'cutting edge' and 'bleeding edge' technology. The fastest, newest boats seem to be the one's with structural vulnerabilities. It may just be bad luck. It may be inadequate sea trialling opportunities during Covid. It may be over ambitious design. Who knows?

And if the cause of these incidents is not UFO/luck related, it is not necessarily good news for the skippers. If Dalin's and Ruyen's problems with their port foils are purely design problems , can they be confident that they will not encounter the same issues with their starboard foils during the passage? It cannot be easy to race a boat when you have doubts about its resilience.

Escoffier's boat was not new...

Alex's structural issues didn't end up putting him out of the race, that was reported as a fishing net around the rudder damaging it beyond repair. Although it's starting to pique my interest that no photos have been released of that, given how open they were about the bow structure. Only a pic of the back of the boat without a rudder in cape town. However, he was doing over 20 knots on the good gybe on the run in to Cape Town, so I don't think the theory that the repairs failed but he didn't want to admit it holds any water.

Well worth remembering that the retirement rate in this race is below average for the Vendee so far. It's a very, very tough race.

 

[doris]

Escoffier's boat was not new...

Alex's structural issues didn't end up putting him out of the race, that was reported as a fishing net around the rudder damaging it beyond repair. Although it's starting to pique my interest that no photos have been released of that, given how open they were about the bow structure. Only a pic of the back of the boat without a rudder in cape town. However, he was doing over 20 knots on the good gybe on the run in to Cape Town, so I don't think the theory that the repairs failed but he didn't want to admit it holds any water.

Well worth remembering that the retirement rate in this race is below average for the Vendee so far. It's a very, very tough race.

Especially as he is flying back down in the New Year to sail the boat back to the UK and no mention of hull repairs!

 

[Ravi]

so I don't think the theory that the repairs failed but he didn't want to admit it holds any water.

I am happily unaware of the conspiracy theory which you refer to (about the reasons Hugo Boss retired). I see no reasons to mistrust the official Vendee versions of events.

Alex's structural issues didn't end up putting him out of the race, that was reported as a fishing net around the rudder damaging it beyond repair.

You misunderstand my post. It is not about whether these boats DNF or were handicapped by these issues. My point is simply that if these hull / foil damages are caused by the expected sea conditions - rather than UFOs - then the cause must surely be described as a design fault.

I would argue that Sam's retirement is not a design fault since resisting the keel hitting a shipping container / whale / iceberg at 20 knots will not have been in the design specification. Resisting repeatedly hitting waves at speed probably should have been in the specification!

Escoffier's boat was not new...

Technically, true. But when you retro-fit foils to a boat it changes the forces on the boat to such a degree that one could argue that it is a trickier design job than a new build. A bit like a kit car which is 'technically' the same car as the donor car.

In terms of the car analogy, i am not saying that these affected boats are dangerous lemons. Other than Escoffier's, all the faults have been detected and overcome by good seamanship without risk to life and with surprisingly little racing time lost.
But, they all seem to have exhibited structural design faults that must be at the back of their skippers' minds - especially if you have one foil inexplicably break and there is another identical one on the other side of your boat!

 

[LONG_KEELER]

So, the three rescuer skippers have been given time allowances :-

Jean Le Cam 16 hours and 15 minutes of compensation
Yannick Bestaven 10 hours and 15 minutes
Boris Herrmann 6 hours of compensation

For example , if calculated at roughly 15 kts, Le Cam would still remain in 4th place with no change.

I'm just wondering at what stage in a Vendee do you start protecting your lead rather than ignore the field
and just go with your own ideas on routing etc ? . The leader has positions two and three only 125nm and 100.8 nm behind. Would be fun to see them selling a few dummy gybes now and then.

 

[Frogmogman]

Interesting piece in the Ouest France newspaper about the reason that Kevin Escoffier's boat was uninsured.

The boat belonged to his sponsor, PRB. In the article, Jean Jacques Laurent, CEO of PRB, explained that although the boat was worth an estimated €2 million, when you break it down you have

Foils - €700 000 (not covered by insurance)
Mast - €500 000 (not covered by insurance)
Sails - €300 000 (not covered by insurance)
then you have an excess of €70 000, leaving you with a €430000 payout on a €2 million boat

He added that for a new boat, insurance would make sense, but not for one that is more than 10 years old.

He also confirmed that they intend to participate in the 2024 Vendée Globe with Kevin, and that they are looking to acquire an existing boat, as they do not have the funds to build a new one. He did add, that were another sponsorship partner to come along, then they could consider a new build.