Seven Spades
Well-known member
Ok so is Jean Le Cam winning this race? He is due some time or distance adding for the rescue. I am not sure how much they will give him but given how bunched they are at the front it must put him in a strong position.
Vendee Globe and Alex Thomson / Hugo Boss
- Thread starter RichardS
- Start date
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
Would be nice to know wouldn't it.
Amazing, after 17,000 odd miles, three boats are within 80 miles of each other.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
It is amazing, and when you deduct the time owing to the boats that were involved in the rescue of Kevin Escoffier, there are even more boats in that mix at the front.
The pedant in me feels obliged to point out that so far they've actually covered about 10400 miles, Charlie Dalin having about 13800 to run as of this morning.
Lightwave395
Well-known member
Interesting discussion with Guillaume Verdier re PRB sinking:
Let's talk about what happened to PRB, a boat you designed in collaboration with VPLP, how do you analyze this unprecedented case?
Obviously I was surprised. But in retrospect we have to put it in context. The boat was designed in 2009 as a sistership to Safran (now MACSF), which we no longer monitored and which also has a long history of damages. The architects [Juan's Kouyoumdjian, Editor's note] added foils and I have no idea what reinforcements were made at that time. It’s not for lack of asking as I asked for plans and calculation reports, which I only got the day after the breakage. For me, that is not good that there is not A to Z tracking of a boat. But in the end we cannot impose that if skipper decides to work with someone else.
What other lessons can be learnt?
I think that boats setting off on such a dangerous race around the world should be tested to see whether they are resistant enough and that they will not break up at sea. That is what we do for example in the America’s Cup, but also with mechanical objects such as airplanes, because lives can be at stake. You have to understand that at the moment she folded up, she was already broken, as this sort of thing is usually the consequence of a gradual series of breakages.
Let's talk about what happened to PRB, a boat you designed in collaboration with VPLP, how do you analyze this unprecedented case?
Obviously I was surprised. But in retrospect we have to put it in context. The boat was designed in 2009 as a sistership to Safran (now MACSF), which we no longer monitored and which also has a long history of damages. The architects [Juan's Kouyoumdjian, Editor's note] added foils and I have no idea what reinforcements were made at that time. It’s not for lack of asking as I asked for plans and calculation reports, which I only got the day after the breakage. For me, that is not good that there is not A to Z tracking of a boat. But in the end we cannot impose that if skipper decides to work with someone else.
What other lessons can be learnt?
I think that boats setting off on such a dangerous race around the world should be tested to see whether they are resistant enough and that they will not break up at sea. That is what we do for example in the America’s Cup, but also with mechanical objects such as airplanes, because lives can be at stake. You have to understand that at the moment she folded up, she was already broken, as this sort of thing is usually the consequence of a gradual series of breakages.
dgadee
Well-known member
Surely you would need to destroy a boat to properly test it? That would make the race twice as expensive in boat terms.
Seven Spades
Well-known member
Sounds like the designer got the hump and refused to co-operate with Juan's Kouyoumdjian.
Ravi
Active member
The other way round according to the article.
It says Kouyoumdjian refused to share data on the modifications with Verdier.
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
I don't think I would want to be a RTW racing boat designer as a day job.
The brief is always make it strong but very light. I suppose you can place an aircraft wing in a wind tunnel for three months and come up with probabilities, but stresses on RTW yachts seem almost impossible to simulate . I suppose the best you can do is an autopsy on what's left, if you've got some , and keep it in mind for the future.
Fascinated to know what happened with Hugo Boss .
The brief is always make it strong but very light. I suppose you can place an aircraft wing in a wind tunnel for three months and come up with probabilities, but stresses on RTW yachts seem almost impossible to simulate . I suppose the best you can do is an autopsy on what's left, if you've got some , and keep it in mind for the future.
Fascinated to know what happened with Hugo Boss .
Frogmogman
Well-known member
It's early days with these foiling boats, the designers are on a pretty steep learning curve about the stresses and strains imposed in the real world of the Southern Ocean.
Guillaume Verdier most certainly should not be asked to shoulder the blame for the catastrophic failure of PRB if such major modification as the addition of foils was undertaken without any reference to him.
Guillaume Verdier most certainly should not be asked to shoulder the blame for the catastrophic failure of PRB if such major modification as the addition of foils was undertaken without any reference to him.
Sandy
Well-known member
Some will see that as a challenge.
There are ways of non destructive testing, but going out and riding a storm (a bit like Erik Aanderaa did on one of his videos) looks to me like a good idea. I did ask very early on this thread or one in the Racing sub-forum if this had been done.
I have asked on LinkedIn if they are planning to publish a report on the incident.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
I'm confident that they'll get to the bottom of it. Whether they choose to share their findings with the rest of us is another matter....
Frogmogman
Well-known member
....and another one,(Merci, Seb Destremeau). With the retirement of Fabrice Amedeo on Newrest/Art et Fenetres he's now up to 25th place.
Sandy
Well-known member
I do hope they share their findings.
Ravi
Active member
If I am reading the weather correctly, look out for a very interesting juncture in the race in 72-96 hours.
There is a very small weather window coming up that means that the relatively relaxed moderate wind sailing that the leaders are enjoying could change into a twitchy anxious sail where they try to squeeze every knot of speed from their boats.
It looks like there will be a very narrow corridor of good wind just above the IEZ once the race leaders drop down to the lower IEZ past the longitude of Cape Leuin all the way past NZ. Above and behind this narrow band there are a couple of windless days.
A race organiser could not have devised a more devious test.
Any of the leading pack that are too slow to make it onto this narrow windy escalator are likely to see their podium hopes dented.
The leading three boats look like they will probably catch it but for everyone else it will be a worry.
What a great race this is turning out to be!
There is a very small weather window coming up that means that the relatively relaxed moderate wind sailing that the leaders are enjoying could change into a twitchy anxious sail where they try to squeeze every knot of speed from their boats.
It looks like there will be a very narrow corridor of good wind just above the IEZ once the race leaders drop down to the lower IEZ past the longitude of Cape Leuin all the way past NZ. Above and behind this narrow band there are a couple of windless days.
A race organiser could not have devised a more devious test.
Any of the leading pack that are too slow to make it onto this narrow windy escalator are likely to see their podium hopes dented.
The leading three boats look like they will probably catch it but for everyone else it will be a worry.
What a great race this is turning out to be!
Tomahawk
Well-known member
I am surprised no one is data harvesting...
As said, it is impossible to predict what stresses the components will come under. The only way is to record live data and then analyse it later.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
all the top teams are. Boris Herman even has some data live on his page.
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Strain guages everywhere?
For sure, telemetry, speed, wind rudder input etc is easy.., I am wondering about the stress through the hull webbings like those that broke on HB.
For sure, telemetry, speed, wind rudder input etc is easy.., I am wondering about the stress through the hull webbings like those that broke on HB.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
So . What does the team think so far.
Out of the top ten, only three are non foilers, but they are lying 4, 5 and 6. On current data, could a non foiler
still win or even have a future in the next Vendee ? It still isn't clear if you are better off hitting something in a foiler or not . Are added foils as good as boats designed to have them ?
I think only one yacht has lost a mast and no keel fall off's which is great. One hopes , barring bad luck, that if you have made it so far you have a good boat.
Out of the top ten, only three are non foilers, but they are lying 4, 5 and 6. On current data, could a non foiler
still win or even have a future in the next Vendee ? It still isn't clear if you are better off hitting something in a foiler or not . Are added foils as good as boats designed to have them ?
I think only one yacht has lost a mast and no keel fall off's which is great. One hopes , barring bad luck, that if you have made it so far you have a good boat.
zoidberg
Well-known member
There's a helluva long, hard road ahead. The Indian Ocean broke several boats, but the deep south of the Pacific Ocean broke more than a few boats, too. 'Point Nemo' is where it all becomes very serious, and no easy get-outs.