VAT Status post Brexit

[grumpygit]

This may be old news but I've just heard of this so . . Does anyone in the CA know anything regarding the VAT status of British flagged boats in Europe post Brexit. This is what I know, this below is from A N Other

I thought I would share advice from the CA regarding VAT status of UK flagged boats that are kept in EU waters post Brexit. The advice they give is that it would be prudent to obtain a T2L document from HMRC which is a document issued by UK Customs to confirm that a vessel was VAT paid in Uk (and therefore EU) prior to Brexit Date of 29th March. With this document your boat has the status of Union Goods and will thus be safe from claims of further VAT payments in EU waters post Brexit and you avoid the need for the boat to leave EU waters every 18 months as the Australians and others have to in order to avoid a VAT bill on their vessels. To get a T2L you need to complete a one page Customs Form C 88 (STATUS) form, send it to HMRC with your vessel registration and proof of VAT paid. I have done this and about a week after submitting the papers I got the C88 back with several official stamps - this apparently is the T2L. I have added it to the ships papers and look forward to explaining it to local PP. You cannot download a C88 from HMRC web

 

[Resolution]

If you have not done so already, why not join the CA and then you can read all of their comments & advice on the subject?
I am a member, have read their stuff, filled in the T2L they provided, and last week my stamped T2L returned back from HMRC and is sitting in front of me. Ready for Brexit!!
Peter

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't understand this at all .
If as I have the original Invoice that show VAT was paid to company X with their VAT number , I can't see in any way that you can be charged VAT a second time .
what happen in the case when you just brought a new car in 2018 and in June 2019 you caught driving the car in Europe, are they going to make you pay VAT a second time ? some how I don't thing so .

 

[dunedin]

Both the RYA and CA are indeed suggesting it might be prudent to apply for an EU T2L document.
However, in the uncertain world where we are heading there are no certainties - and hence I would not think that the statement is correct that “will thus be safe from claims of further VAT payments in EU waters post Brexit and you avoid the need for the boat to leave EU waters every 18 months”. That is very optimistic.
I interpret it as a useful extra document that may help. But no guarantees.

Incidentally if a member of the RYA they do a superb T2L pack - blank form, sample form showing which sections to fill out and explanatory note. Well worth getting from RYA if considering this route.

 

[nortada]

Having applied direct to HMRC Salford, we have a T2L so no need for third parties.

This whole subject has already been done to death elsewhere on this forum so nothing further to add.

 

[grumpygit]

If you have not done so already, why not join the CA and then you can read all of their comments & advice on the subject?
I am a member, have read their stuff, filled in the T2L they provided, and last week my stamped T2L returned back from HMRC and is sitting in front of me. Ready for Brexit!!
Peter

Joining the CA would be akin for me like owning a pushbike and joining the RAC/AA. I thought the perception of a forum was to share information amongst it's members?

 

[RupertW]

Joining the CA would be akin for me like owning a pushbike and joining the RAC/AA. I thought the perception of a forum was to share information amongst it's members?

Now that's an ethical dilemma - freeload off an organisation that funds itself by membership subscriptions and an enormous amount of voluntary effort, or be a member and share the info for free as we are all sailors together. CA members do seem to share important bits of info with all but I can fully understand why they wouldn't spend the time sharing every single discussion when it's all available if you join.

 

[LadyInBed]

You cannot download a C88 from HMRC web

is this it?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ort-single-administrative-document-c88-status

 

[nortada]

is this it?
https://https://www.gov.uk/governme...ministrative-document-full-8-part-set-c88-1-8

Looks remarkably like it.

Remember you only have to send page 4 direct to HMRC Salford and no original supporting paper work. As it may not be returned.

The page 4 will be returned, signed and sealed and be your T2L.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lag...ide-memoir-british-flagged-vessels-t1885.html if you require more detail.

Hope this helps.

 

[Resolution]

Now that's an ethical dilemma - freeload off an organisation that funds itself by membership subscriptions and an enormous amount of voluntary effort, or be a member and share the info for free as we are all sailors together. CA members do seem to share important bits of info with all but I can fully understand why they wouldn't spend the time sharing every single discussion when it's all available if you join.

Thank you Rupert. As you say, the CA does put a lot of effort into providing advice for its members on this and other subjects. Well worth the subscription.
Peter

 

[Resolution]

Joining the CA would be akin for me like owning a pushbike and joining the RAC/AA. I thought the perception of a forum was to share information amongst it's members?

No problem with the forum sharing PUBLIC information. The advice given by the CA to its members is meant for its members. For me to pass it on to a non member would be disrespectful to the CA persons who made the effort to research the situation and provide the advice.
Peter

 

[dunedin]

No problem with the forum sharing PUBLIC information. The advice given by the CA to its members is meant for its members. For me to pass it on to a non member would be disrespectful to the CA persons who made the effort to research the situation and provide the advice.
Peter

As a CA and RYA member I agree entirely. And I have also commended the excellent RYA pack for this - free to members (but not to freeloaders)

 

[nortada]

I will resolve the ethical dilemma.

Go to my #8 and use the link I produced that will give you all you need to get a T2L.

I produced this guide following direct liaison with HMRC Salford and got a T2L.

I then produced this guide for use by all so no need to agonise over dishing out sensitive RYA and CU documentation. Having proved it works, its’s mine and you are welcome to use it

But now to the real irony.

The C88/T2L is an 8 page document (all 8 pages are identical, carbon copies) used to accompany good exported and imported around the EU and elsewhere. The pages are left as a record with the various agencies handling the load - Page 4 is the page that stays with the load.

As this is a shipping document it has nothing to do with VAT status!

So how has this all come about

A few years ago (way before Brexit) the authorities in Portugal and Croatia started placing liens on boats and demanding production of the relevant part of a T2L (Page 4).

HMRC Salford explained, to all that would listen, that a T2L was neither appropriate or relevant to UK flagged cruising vessel and the standard VAT reciept was all that was required. Then HMRC Salford declined to issue T2Ls to cruising vessels.

Unfortunately, Portugal and Croatia would not listen and continued to place liens on private boats, which put cruisers in an impossible position.

To get cruisers out of a hole, HMRC Salford was happy to enter into the charade but issuing a Page 4 of a T2L, without any proof of VAT payment, on request. You do have to provide a SSR Number.

As this keeps everbody happy, many of us in Portugal have gone pro-active and got a T2L.

Now you have the full story of the T2L saga.

In the broader context of proof of VAT staus post Brexit, this has already been done to death in other threads on this forum and the concensus of opinion is as stated by Sailaboutvic in his post #3 above.

At the risk of pissing them off, if you want more, you could go direct to Salford, who, in the past, have proved extremely helpful or you could dig around on this forum or in the Lagos Navigators and Strollers Free Forum (the source of my link).

A final word of warning, DO NOT send HMRC Salford your ship’s papers - they my not be returned

 

[grumpygit]

As a CA and RYA member I agree entirely. And I have also commended the excellent RYA pack for this - free to members (but not to freeloaders)

Why are you on this or any other free internet forum? Your post(s) is/are quite offensive and unjust regarding people who are not a member of some subscribed and in some cases elitist body and classing me/them as "freeloaders". You and any other(s) please back off trying to bully or shame people on line to do something they don't wish to be part of.
I am a great believer of free and easy information generally contributed by gracious people with no other agenda but to help others, of which I always appreciate their input.
FYI I used to be a member of the RYA for circa 20 years and they let me down badly so I cancelled my membership of which has not effected my further life of been a sailor at all.

 

[nortada]

Why are you on this or any other free internet forum? Your post(s) is/are quite offensive and unjust regarding people who are not a member of some subscribed and in some cases elitist body and classing me/them as "freeloaders". You and any other(s) please back off trying to bully or shame people on line to do something they don't wish to be part of.
I am a great believer of free and easy information generally contributed by gracious people with no other agenda but to help others, of which I always appreciate their input.
FYI I used to be a member of the RYA for circa 20 years and they let me down badly so I cancelled my membership of which has not effected my further life of been a sailor at all.

Thank you grumpygit.

I take this as a vote of thanks for my efforts on T2L above.:encouragement:

Can't quite see the need for a T2L in the Clyde?

As I had to renew my ICC, I am a reluctant member of the RYA.

The reason I did my own research on T2L was because I found significant errors in the RYA pack-up, which I subsequently ditched.

I also have had sight of the CA advice.

 

[grumpygit]

Thank you grumpygit.

I take this as a vote of thanks for my efforts on T2L above.:encouragement:

Can't quite see the need for a T2L in the Clyde?

As I had to renew my ICC, I am a reluctant member of the RYA.

The reason I did my own research on T2L was because I found significant errors in the RYA pack-up, which I subsequently ditched.

I also have had sight of the CA advice.

It is a vote of thanks Nortada, and for your time and others also in efforts to keep this freeloader and others freely informed.
Unless you join the RYA only once every five years, 5 x £45 to get a free ICC seems a little extreme?

 

[Mistroma]

I had found the form online and downloaded it a little while before reading that it couldn't be found. Nortada beat me to it by publishing the link. I had made a start on completing the form using information already published but the additional information did prove to be useful.

I didn't know about the RYA T2L pack and sent off for it just in case it provided additional information. It arrived today and did add a little bit extra. Some of the text must be in red, there were some useful codes and an instruction that HMRC would not accept a downloaded form, only an original.

I already had the code for my boat and it agreed with the RYA one for >12m yacht.

No idea why a downloaded form wouldn't be acceptable to HMRC when it came from UK Gov website. Perhaps some people were only sending in one side of Page 4 and HMRC need to write something on the other side.

I scanned an original form and converted it to a PDF covering both sides, though only the first page needs to be completed. I added some instructions, tooltips and a dropdown list to select the code. Fields requiring data can be highlighted in Acrobat but other software might not allow this option. I put descriptive text in most fields in case they weren't highlighted. Just fill in text fields, pick from dropdown list (field 33), enter wt. in 35 and sign. It is in colour and looks like the original but I don't know if HMRC will accept it. It might still be useful for checking if completing an original form by hand.

http://www.mistroma.com/Manuals/C88_Page4Form.pdf

I don't know if HMRC would object to me publishing this on my website. I'll probably delete in a little while but can email copies if it is useful. I haven't tested it very much (relying on you lot as testers ), feedback welcome if I've messed something up. I was in a rush this afternoon so not exactly a work of art.

 

[Chris_Robb]

In additional to the T2L, it may be necessary to have your boat in the EU on the days of exit. This will, according to information the RYA received - purportedly from the EU Commission enable you to be sure that you will remain as goods in circulation. As my boat is in Greece I should be OK - but perhaps if the exit is delayed, I will need to make sure I am not in Turkey at the time of Brexit.

Who Knows!

 

[sailaboutvic]

I understood you couldn't use the form you downloaded on line to apply but had to get it from the RYA pack or from HMRC .
I take it that not correct and you can use the downloaded form ?

 

[nortada]

I understood you couldn't use the form you downloaded on line to apply but had to get it from the RYA pack or from HMRC.

I take it that not correct and you can use the downloaded form ?

You can down load and print off just Page 4, (single side) complete in black ink and send to HMRC Salford, enclosing a SAE.

Marina de Lagos also spoke direct to Salford (in faultless English) and were advised that as Salford was running low on these forms and the proceedure was all now electronic, (no more reprints), forms printed off the website would be acceptable.

To help yotties who do not have printers on board, the marina now has a supply of these forms (in black on white) for those who want one. These black white print off seem to be perfectly acceptable.

You will get your form signed and stamped by return of post but no covering letter.

As I write, I have my T2L (all in black ink) in front of me so can confirm the procedure outlined in my link (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lag...ide-memoir-british-flagged-vessels-t1885.html) works.

I would repeat, unless you are sailing in Portugal or Croatia, probably a totally pointless exercise.