VAT post Brexit

[Irish Rover]

Wonder if I can just take the ferry and pay for a weeks berthing in Cherbourg over the new year. Whenever I have been there you just rock up at the office and pay, they never seem to be bothered to check exactly where you are actually moored - even when I left a boat there for three weeks before. So could probably get away without the boat actually being there. Then I will have receipt for EU on 31/12 as well as a UK receipt for my home mooring.

I have always been of the opinion that after B Day a boat cannot be both UK VAT PAID and EU VAT PAID. Sure there will be loopholes but all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions and at best owners will have to be economical with the truth if they try to keep dual status. There are probably penalties for being economical with the truth if you're rumbled.

 

[ithet]

I have always been of the opinion that after B Day a boat cannot be both UK VAT PAID and EU VAT PAID. Sure there will be loopholes but all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions and at best owners will have to be economical with the truth if they try to keep dual status. There are probably penalties for being economical with the truth if you're rumbled.

Perhaps I have misunderstood then. I thought being in EU on 31/12 gave automatic EU VAT paid status? Will all vessels not in UK on 31/12 also loose VAT paid status - I did not think that was the case unless exported? Talking about a short trip overseas only.

My somewhat facetious point was that if one holds suitable documentary evidence that ticks the boxes than all bureaucrats are happy.

 

[Irish Rover]

Perhaps I have misunderstood then. I thought being in EU on 31/12 gave automatic EU VAT paid status? Will all vessels not in UK on 31/12 also loose VAT paid status - I did not think that was the case unless exported? Talking about a short trip overseas only.

My somewhat facetious point was that if one holds suitable documentary evidence that ticks the boxes than all bureaucrats are happy.

I can't quote you any chapter and verse on this but it makes no sense to me that a boat could have dual VAT paid status unless, of course, the UK and EU were to agree to that as part of the Brexit deal and all boats with current UK/EU VAT PAID status retained their dual status after 01/01/21 regardless of location on B Day.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have always been of the opinion that after B Day a boat cannot be both UK VAT PAID and EU VAT PAID. Sure there will be loopholes but all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions and at best owners will have to be economical with the truth if they try to keep dual status. There are probably penalties for being economical with the truth if you're rumbled.

Economical with the truth ,,,,
I do like that , have to remember it .

 

[sailaboutvic]

I can't quote you any chapter and verse on this but it makes no sense to me that a boat could have dual VAT paid status unless, of course, the UK and EU were to agree to that as part of the Brexit deal and all boats with current UK/EU VAT PAID status retained their dual status after 01/01/21 regardless of location on B Day.

So let just say a boat is in the EU at the end of the years so it keeps its EU vat status . All good
Then some weeks later its sail back into the UK and is able to get RGR , so now it's UK vat status . All good
Two years later it's sailed out of the UK and then sold in say Portugal using its prove that the boat was in the EU at the end of the B period, with me so far .?

 

[Irish Rover]

So let just say a boat is in the EU at the end of the years so it keeps its EU vat status . All good
Then some weeks later its sail back into the UK and is able to get RGR , so now it's UK vat status . All good
Two years later it's sailed out of the UK and then sold in say Portugal using its prove that the boat was in the EU at the end of the B period, with me so far .?

Fully wth you, Vic. After the 2 years you'd have to check-out leaving UK and check-in arriving in Portugal. Portuguese authorities ask where are you arriving from. You say UK. They ask were you in UK on TI, can I see a copy please sir? What then?

 

[ithet]

I have always been of the opinion that after B Day a boat cannot be both UK VAT PAID and EU VAT PAID. Sure there will be loopholes but all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions and at best owners will have to be economical with the truth if they try to keep dual status. There are probably penalties for being economical with the truth if you're rumbled.

So let just say a boat is in the EU at the end of the years so it keeps its EU vat status . All good
Then some weeks later its sail back into the UK and is able to get RGR , so now it's UK vat status . All good
Two years later it's sailed out of the UK and then sold in say Portugal using its prove that the boat was in the EU at the end of the B period, with me so far .?

But what of the case where the vessel was not exported? My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that the EU have stated that any boat will be deemed EU VAT paid if it is in the EU on 31/12, nothing about where it is in on 30/12 and 01/1. So, if the boat were in UK on those days (as an extreme example) surely it will not be considered exported but have EU VAT status and UK VAT status (unless all trips from UK to EU after 31/12 are to become an export, no matter how short)? So how can the boat loose its UK VAT status in this way?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Fully wth you, Vic. After the 2 years you'd have to check-out leaving UK and check-in arriving in Portugal. Portuguese authorities ask where are you arriving from. You say UK. They ask were you in UK on TI, can I see a copy please sir? What then?

What TI ? An VAT which has EU vat status don't need a TI . And if you can prove the boat was n the EU in B day all good .

Conversation goes , but sir you just said you come from the UK .
Yes that's right I been cruising there for a while .

Only problem I see it boats that have AIS

 

[Irish Rover]

But what of the case where the vessel was not exported? My understanding (perhaps wrong) is that the EU have stated that any boat will be deemed EU VAT paid if it is in the EU on 31/12, nothing about where it is in on 30/12 and 01/1. So, if the boat were in UK on those days (as an extreme example) surely it will not be considered exported but have EU VAT status and UK VAT status (unless all trips from UK to EU after 31/12 are to become an export, no matter how short)? So how can the boat loose its UK VAT status in this way?

If a boat is in the EU on 31/12 and wants to return to the UK on 01/01/21 or subsequently it is required to check-out of the EU and check-in or arrival in the UK. At that point it has to apply for RGR or temporary importation. If it applies for RGR it is then UK VAT PAID and in my opinion thereby loses its EU VAT PAID status.

 

[Irish Rover]

What TI ? An VAT which has EU vat status don't need a TI . And if you can prove the boat was n the EU in B day all good .

Conversation goes , but sir you just said you come from the UK .
Yes that's right I been cruising there for a while .

Only problem I see it boats that have AIS

See my #29 above. Basically I'm saying you can't have your cake and eat it. You may get away with it by being "economical with the truth" but you may not also if an official asks to see your paperwork.

 

[sailaboutvic]

If a boat is in the EU on 31/12 and wants to return to the UK on 01/01/21 or subsequently it is required to check-out of the EU and check-in or arrival in the UK. At that point it has to apply for RGR or temporary importation. If it applies for RGR it is then UK VAT PAID and in my opinion thereby loses its EU VAT PAID status.

What you say I say correct but as posted earlier who to say it lost its EU status if some years later it's floating about some where in the EU .
There may be some paper trail that in day x it arrived in the UK and got RGR .
On day Y left and check into France
On day Z two years later when you are for to prove EU vat status in say Greece and you produce prove the boat in the EU on B day are they going to find that paper trail , some how I don't think so .

Plus it not really a big deal , an non EU vat boat only need to leave the EU once in 18Months

 

[sailaboutvic]

My boat is in the EU and it will stay in the EU for one very good reason , the EU market is much bigger then the UK market when it comes to sell

 

[Irish Rover]

What you say I say correct but as posted earlier who to say it lost its EU status if some years later it's floating about some where in the EU .
There may be some paper trail that in day x it arrived in the UK and got RGR .
On day Y left and check into France
On day Z two years later when you are for to prove EU vat status in say Greece and you produce prove the boat in the EU on B day are they going to find that paper trail , some how I don't think so .

Plus it not really a big deal , an non EU vat boat only need to leave the EU once in 18Months

Totally agree Vic, it's no big deal. As has been said umpteen times before 90/180 etc restrictions are much more important for UK boaters.

 

[awol]

So I have to check out of, say, Ardglass and then check in to Howth even though there's no border ? Aye, right!

 

[Irish Rover]

So I have to check out of, say, Ardglass and then check in to Howth even though there's no border ? Aye, right!

The Irish conundrum. I think I'll just quote Fr Jack and say "that would be an ecumenical matter, wouldn't it Father".

 

[TernVI]

I wouldn't plan anything too long term and byzantine.
I would not be surprised if the EU pushes ahead with some sort of harmonised registration of yachts, which could be expensive for non-resident owners?

 

[Graham376]

all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions.

What about between European jurisdictions? Do you envisage UK flagged boats based in the EU will have to check in/out when moving from one State to another?

 

[Seven Spades]

Shengen is one jurisdiction so you won’t have to check in and out once you have entered Schengen. But moving between Schengen and say Turkey or Croatia will require you to check in and out.

 

[Seven Spades]

I have always been of the opinion that after B Day a boat cannot be both UK VAT PAID and EU VAT PAID. Sure there will be loopholes but all boats will legally have to check-out and check-in when travelling between the two jurisdictions and at best owners will have to be economical with the truth if they try to keep dual status. There are probably penalties for being economical with the truth if you're rumbled.

No I think you are wrong here. If your boat is Vat paid in the U.K. and you take it to the EU for B day it will have EU goods status. If you then return to the U.K. Within three years it will qualify for RGR . However if you then return to The EU within 3 years it will still retain EU goods status. So s long as you go back and fourth between both areas every three years it will retain its VAT paid status I both areas. However the minute it is sold it will lose it’s VAT paid status in one area. If the transaction takes place in the U.K. it will keep its VAT paid status in the U.K. but lose it’s EU status nd visa-versa.

 

[Irish Rover]

What about between European jurisdictions? Do you envisage UK flagged boats based in the EU will have to check in/out when moving from one State to another?

In my opinion no. A boat entering the EU from outside has to complete the check-in procedure at it's first port of entry. If it's EU VAT Paid then it's free to cruise between countries subject to complying with any individual national state laws [e.g. paying Greek cruising tax]. Same applies if it's EU VAT NOT PAID except the check-in procedure will be to apply for temporary importation to the EU [not the arrival country] which is limited to 18 months.