Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
Post deleted .
VAT on imported yacht
- Thread starter DAS
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is correct, but there is nothing in the OP's question that suggests that is the case. He specifically says it has been in Portugal for several years and asks about importing it into the UK and how it would be valued. Perhaps if the OP comes back with more detailed info there could be a more definitive answer.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The Returned Goods Relief rules would apply. Read this
www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-8-sailing-your-pleasure-craft-to-and-from-the-uk/notice-8-sailing-your-pleasure-craft-to-and-from-the-uk
For a full explanation
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
To add my limited understanding to the confusion - I think it would be better to move the vessel to the UK, and then transfer the ownership.
My understanding is that if doing the alternative, unless the seller/buyer can take the vessel into international waters to sign the documents then VAT will be liable in Europe, and then likely again in the UK. The way around this is via TI (temporary import) for a non-EU citizen into EU before onward transport to the UK, but this requires the vessel to be taken out of the EU, sold, and then re-imported. The application of the law varies between EU member states as far as I am lead to believe too, so what happens in reality in different countries can vary. I have no practical or real experience with this, but I know it happens with larger yachts as a tax avoidance method. The TI would give 18 months for the vessel to be moved to the UK, but it cannot be skippered by an EU national during this time.
If the vessel is transported to the UK then sold (transfer of ownership is the same) then VAT will be liable by the new owner. Forgetting all the "who will check" comments, this is the law - whether they can get around this or ignore it is not my business.
The RCD issue is a whole other one, but needs looking into carefully. We were looking at a Hunter a while back, the one in question was imported into the EU before the RCD requirements so we were OK, but if this was imported into the EU after (I think 1996) then this may be a sticky issue. Again, there will be those who say "who will check" or "who cares", but the fact is that insurers and surveyors will....
Noonsite is a good resource that I was directed to: Noonsite Scroll down this page to the section TEMPORARY IMPORT OF PRIVATE NON-EU VESSELS FOR USE IN THE EU
My understanding is that if doing the alternative, unless the seller/buyer can take the vessel into international waters to sign the documents then VAT will be liable in Europe, and then likely again in the UK. The way around this is via TI (temporary import) for a non-EU citizen into EU before onward transport to the UK, but this requires the vessel to be taken out of the EU, sold, and then re-imported. The application of the law varies between EU member states as far as I am lead to believe too, so what happens in reality in different countries can vary. I have no practical or real experience with this, but I know it happens with larger yachts as a tax avoidance method. The TI would give 18 months for the vessel to be moved to the UK, but it cannot be skippered by an EU national during this time.
If the vessel is transported to the UK then sold (transfer of ownership is the same) then VAT will be liable by the new owner. Forgetting all the "who will check" comments, this is the law - whether they can get around this or ignore it is not my business.
The RCD issue is a whole other one, but needs looking into carefully. We were looking at a Hunter a while back, the one in question was imported into the EU before the RCD requirements so we were OK, but if this was imported into the EU after (I think 1996) then this may be a sticky issue. Again, there will be those who say "who will check" or "who cares", but the fact is that insurers and surveyors will....
Noonsite is a good resource that I was directed to: Noonsite Scroll down this page to the section TEMPORARY IMPORT OF PRIVATE NON-EU VESSELS FOR USE IN THE EU
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Chances are during the tourist season quite a few trailer sailors come and go across the channel, with cars stacked with camping gear so unlikely to draw too much attention. I'm a firm believer in the 11th commandment - don't get caught.
st599
Well-Known Member
What's happening with the RCD in January when we switch from CE to UKCA marking?
Has the UK copied all the issued RCDs or will re-testing be needed if placing on the market in the UK?
Has the UK copied all the issued RCDs or will re-testing be needed if placing on the market in the UK?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is just confusing the issue. The boat is in Portugal and therefore considered EU VAT paid. If it is sold in the EU then no VAT is payable.
The question is what happens if it is imported into the UK? Ignoring the certification issue at the moment, but just considering VAT
If the current owner bought or kept the boat in the UK then it was considered UK (and EU at the time) VAT paid. If that owner then took the boat to Portugal it remained UK/EU VAT paid and could move around the EU and UK freely.
All that changed on 31/12/20 and the boat potentially lost its UK VAT status by virtue of not being in the UK. IF the boat is still owned by the same person he can bring it back to the UK without paying VAT under the current Returned Goods Relief concession until June 2022. If it changes hands in the EU that concession is lost.
If the father-in law can take advantage of that concession (a big unknown at the moment) he can then sell/give to son without paying VAT.
If, however the boat was bought in the EU it does not matter who imports it into the UK VAT is due.
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
Come down off your soap-box mate, you have some fair points. But I don't remember seeing anywhere it was mentioned either the VAT status of the vessel, or the residential status of the people in question.
So we could both be right - or wrong - but I'm no more confusing than most of the other comments here in that case, yours included.
There are always a bunch of assumptions on these posts, I agree that I have also made plenty. I guess the best advice is for the OP to speak to an actual expert, not a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs
syvictoria
Well-Known Member
The OP states that the boat's been in Portugal for several years. It's therefore either been there illegally, or it's (deemed) EU VAT paid (would be my guess!).
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but all the stuff about international waters and TI is totally irrelevant to the OP's question. Not on a soap box, but that is just not useful information in this case.
The boat is in Portugal and the OP is asking about what happens if it is brought to the UK for use by a UK resident. TI does not come into it. Even if the current owner is a non UK resident and takes advantage of TI into the UK as soon as he sells it (or gives it away) VAT is due
Your first sentence is correct - but only as I explained if the current owner is eligible for Returned Goods Relief.
The boat is in Portugal and the OP is asking about what happens if it is brought to the UK for use by a UK resident. TI does not come into it. Even if the current owner is a non UK resident and takes advantage of TI into the UK as soon as he sells it (or gives it away) VAT is due
Your first sentence is correct - but only as I explained if the current owner is eligible for Returned Goods Relief.
jac
Well-Known Member
But the key thing is it's UK Vat status.
If we assume that a UK resident bought it in the UK then relocated it to the EU then it is both EU and UK VAT paid. Original owner can bring it back to the UK under RGR until next June and it's status is the same as any other boat that has never left the UK.
if was not bought / based in the UK then it can't have UK VAT paid status.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Isn't the UK VAT status time-limited, except under exceptional circumstances? Three years comes to mind.
greeny
Well-Known Member
OP (new member) hasn't posted since the original question. I think you lot have scared him off with all the legal technicalities! ??
GregOddity
Well-Known Member
I must admit I’m really glad we did away with all the pesky EU red tape. Life is so much easier now that we “have taken back control”. Only one thing bugs me… WHY does this thread read like something straight out of the 1960’s?
Forgive the thread drift but it’s impossible not to pop a beer can and some popcorn reading this.
BEST advice to import a boat? Use an import Agent or broker because nobody else really knows what and how.
This future is looking a hell of a lot like the long gone past!
Forgive the thread drift but it’s impossible not to pop a beer can and some popcorn reading this.
BEST advice to import a boat? Use an import Agent or broker because nobody else really knows what and how.
This future is looking a hell of a lot like the long gone past!
dankilb
Well-Known Member
You can’t buy fuel, literally… who’s bothered about a trailer sailor?! Bring it in… assume the last thing a failed state should be interested in is tax on an ancient boat.
If on the odd chance they ask for an unreasonable amount of vat on entry, leave it there for them to sort and be on your way with a wry smile!
‘How can I follow the rules?’ threads seem increasingly superfluous when the rules themselves seem no longer to apply.
If on the odd chance they ask for an unreasonable amount of vat on entry, leave it there for them to sort and be on your way with a wry smile!
‘How can I follow the rules?’ threads seem increasingly superfluous when the rules themselves seem no longer to apply.
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If it's been in the EU for several years it surely should be EU VAT paid ? It should also have had any RCD issues dealt with when it was imported into the EU. So if the owner is in the UK he can bring his boat back here, if he does so before next June.
If any of that is incorrect and the son has to pay the VAT, 20% of it's value sounds like a cheap boat to me.
st599
Well-Known Member
Before January - after January 1st, the CE sticker (RCD compliant) will need to be swapped to a CA sticker (RCR compliant) and the only way to do that at the moment seems to pay for the vessel approval: https://www.rya.org.uk/news/rya-and...tial-new-costs-of-trading-second-hand-vessels
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
He's got 3 months then, plus however more months he'll get when the dates get extended, like the VAT ones have been.
Until the idiots "in charge" sort some of this mess out we'll be stuck with very expensive import procedures and boat prices in the UK will increase considerably.
pandos
Well-Known Member
No customs France to Ireland... No border Ireland/Northern Ireland. No checks on goods Northern Ireland to GB.
Just a possibility...
ithet
Well-Known Member
Could someone explain why bringing a small boat back from the EU now on a trailer is any different to returning with a caravan? Or do caravans/motorhomes/cars etc. have to go through an import procedure and prove where they have been for for the last few years?